Panasonic is slacking with P2

[David Jimerson]

That's cute.

You mean to tell me the guys at Panasonic are completely baffled as to how to make cards of much higher capacity and charge less for them. You don't give them much credit, do you?

For reasons and empirical evidence already stated in the thread, I think they're doing what they can do.

Barring expertise in the engineering and everything else involved in manufacturing P2 cards, I don't think you or anyone else can say what they "should" be charging.

They may not charge what you want them to. But that doesn't mean they're gouging; it only means that it's more than you want to pay. In that case, buy something else.

(A $15,000 Kia has four wheels and engine. So does a Ferrari. So why does the Ferrari cost $150 grand? Clearly, they can sell their cars for $20K, right?)

 

[Barry_Green]

If they sold a terabyte P2 card now for a fair price, each customer would only need that one card for the life of their camera. Panasonic can't have that

Really? I went two years with just two 4GB cards. I now have a 16 and an 8, and I'm pretty much set. I don't really anticipate needing any more. So, for me and many like me, we're already at that point.

So you must believe that they could produce a two-terabyte card today, and they just won't? Because they're meanies, or they're like drug dealers, stringing us along?

Is that the same reason Intel won't release a 200GHz CPU today? Or why Seagate won't put out a 2-terabyte SSD today? Or why we're stuck with this lame 60Hz frame rate, when everyone should obviously be able to make 4K 10,000fps camcorders today?

 

[Abaddon]

For reasons and empirical evidence already stated in the thread, I think they're doing what they can do.

Barring expertise in the engineering and everything else involved in manufacturing P2 cards, I don't think you or anyone else can say what they "should" be charging.

They may not charge what you want them to. But that doesn't mean they're gouging; it only means that it's more than you want to pay. In that case, buy something else.

(A $15,000 Kia has four wheels and engine. So does a Ferrari. So why does the Ferrari cost $150 grand? Clearly, they can sell their cars for $20K, right?)

No, for obvious reasons.

What I would like is to compare manufacturing costs. If the cost to make the product is through the roof, then I'll understand. But how much can it possibly cost to make these things? An 8gb card is practically the same as a 64, part wise. What is the one element between the two that justifies an over $2000 price difference?

 

[DC]

. . . Panasonic is gouging the customers. There's no doubt in my mind that Panasonic could manufacture higher capacity cards at a MUCH cheeper price if they wanted to. This is not a matter of them not having the capability of doing so . . . I understand what they're doing. They're trying to make as much money off of the cards as possible. Charge a lot of money and release higher capacity cards periodically to keep buyers coming back for more. If they sold a terabyte P2 card now for a fair price, each customer would only need that one card for the life of their camera. Panasonic can't have that, so by doing this, they keep the dollars rolling in. Great for them, sucks for us.

Talking from experience and expertise are ya? Glad to hear you have been made privy as to what goes on behind closed doors at Panasonic.

Seriously, I think statements like those above are borderline ridiculous and does not serve us well here.

 

[Abaddon]

Talking from experience and expertise are ya? Glad to hear you have been made privy as to what goes on behind closed doors at Panasonic.

Seriously, I think statements like those above are borderline ridiculous and does not serve us well here.

Then don't waste your time in responding.

 

[DC]

Then don't waste your time in responding.

As the sole person who can judge if my time is being wasted or not, I can accurately report that I am pleased with my assessment of the temporal length of my previous event.

Best to you, sir! :beer:

 

[Abaddon]

As the sole person who can judge if my time is being wasted or not, I can accurately report that I am pleased with my assessment of the temporal length of my previous event.

Best to you, sir! :beer:

Wow, you're so cool.

Now, can anyone tell me what the element is between an 8gb card and a 64gb card that justifies an over $2000 price difference?

 

[David Jimerson]

What I would like is to compare manufacturing costs. If the cost to make the product is through the roof, then I'll understand. But how much can it possibly cost to make these things? An 8gb card is practically the same as a 64, part wise. What is the one element between the two that justifies an over $2000 price difference?

That's the point -- you don't know how much it costs to make one, yet you have "no doubt" that Panasonic is price gouging. If you are not familiar with the engineering involved in the design and manufacture, then you are in no position at all to make these sweeping statements.

Again, if it were as easy and cheap as you seem to think, why isn't someone else making them for cheaper? And why do Sony's SxS cards cost the same per gigabyte?

Like I said, it may cost more than you're willing to pay, but you're free to buy something else.

 

[Abaddon]

That's the point -- you don't know how much it costs to make one, yet you have "no doubt" that Panasonic is price gouging. If you are not familiar with the engineering involved in the design and manufacture, then you are in no position at all to make these sweeping statements.

Again, it may cost more than you're willing to pay, but you're free to buy something else.

And again, if it were as easy and cheap as you seem to think, why isn't someone else making them for cheaper? And why do Sony's SxS cards cost the same per gigabyte?

Because enough people are willing to pay for these things. A lot of companies don't care about the cost and they can affort stacks of them if they want. But there are many people like myself who will continue to wait and/or make due with what we have.

But even so, what could possibly cost $2000 more in a 64gb card than a 16?

 

[TwistedLincoln]

Because enough people are willing to pay for these things. A lot of companies don't care about the cost and they can affort stacks of them if they want. But there are many people like myself who will continue to wait and/or make due with what we have.

But even so, what could possibly cost $2000 more in a 64gb card than a 16?

I think you've just made the biggest point against your own argument -- as long as Panasonic (and the other brands) are selling P2 cards in large volume to somebody, they are going to keep the prices the same. It doesn't really matter how much or little profit they make. If they can sell them at that price, they will.

I'm fairly confident that Panasonic could care less if you or I ever buy more than one P2 card in a market where places like Fox News order 100 at a time.

Where we differ is that I'm not offended by that. Good for them if they can charge top dollar and still sell hundreds. Sure, I'd love for them to be cheaper, but as long as I'm a bottom-of-the-chain customer, I don't expect for Panasonic or anyone else to care one way or the other what I think about the price.

 

[David Jimerson]

But even so, what could possibly cost $2000 more in a 64gb card than a 16?

How much does it cost, at this moment in time, to produce a zero-defect, professional-grade, high-transfer 16 GB SD card vs. a 4GB one? (No, these are not the SD cards you find at Wal-Mart.)

Find that out, and you'll have your answer.

Either way, though, they cost what they cost, and if you don't want to pay it, find something else. It really is a dead issue.

 

[jrmiller_entertainment]

Why do you guys keep complaining????? If you don't want to pay for P2, DON'T USE IT!! It's that simple. There are cheaper HD options out there. If it's not cost effective for you find a solution that is.

 

[Abaddon]

Why do you guys keep complaining????? If you don't want to pay for P2, DON'T USE IT!! It's that simple. There are cheaper HD options out there. If it's not cost effective for you find a solution that is.

We keep complaining because we're consumers of Panasonic products and there are products we would like to purchase under different terms. What's wrong with the people at Panasonic knowing what issues their customers have?

 

[Abaddon]

How much does it cost, at this moment in time, to produce a zero-defect, professional-grade, high-transfer 16 GB SD card vs. a 4GB one? (No, these are not the SD cards you find at Wal-Mart.)

Find that out, and you'll have your answer.

Either way, though, they cost what they cost, and if you don't want to pay it, find something else. It really is a dead issue.

Why is this such tabboo with you guys? I think the curiosity is justified. A 4gb card is the same size and same weight as a 64, so where does that extra cost come into play? It's fine if you don't know but I see nothing wrong in questioning it.

 

[Stephen Mick]

Nothing wrong with questioning, but that wasn't what your post was about. Your post was about why isn't P2 as price-competitive as these newer/other storage technologies. You said "something a'int right" and we're telling you that it is what it is, and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[jrmiller_entertainment]

sure we'd all like to pay less for things but they're running a business, not a charity.

4gb card is the same size and same weight as a 64, so where does that extra cost come into play?

REALLY???? The extra cost comes into play when you compare the numbers 4 and 64.

 

[Abaddon]

I totally understand why they do it, but when comparing their storage progress to everyone elses, it's an interesting scenerio.

It's just irks me when people can't admit the truth, but instead act as if Panasonic is working as hard as they can and offering the best possible price for the consumer. We all know they could sell their cards for a fraction of the price, unless of course somone can throw down some numbers and explain that $2000 mystery part.

 

[Abaddon]

sure we'd all like to pay less for things but they're running a business, not a charity.



REALLY???? The extra cost comes into play when you compare the numbers 4 and 64.

That's just a number.

If you make a 4gb P2 and a 64gb P2 card, tell me exactly what justifies a more than $2000 charge to the consumer. Is there a part that costs that much or is it just something you can get away with because people will pay it?

 

[Jeff Anderson]

the 60 extra gb's of memory...

 

[studio1972]

To be fair to Panasonic, they do provide a much cheaper (similar quality) option in the HMC150. You cannot really complain about P2 costs when they are offering you an alternative like that.

To be fair to Abadon:

I am a chartered professional engineer and I have worked in the electronics industry for several years. From my experience, I very much doubt that there is a huge cost difference in the components of P2 cards and, for example, CF cards.

All these cards contain memory chips which are a cheap commodity item.

The P2 cards made by other manufacturers are (I'm quite sure) made under licence as Panasonic will have patents on the P2 design. This explains why the costs are similar.

However, panasonic will have some extra costs as the P2 cards sell in much smaller numbers than CF cards, so there is less economy of scale. Do these costs justify the price difference? Hard to tell, but I would expect that the profit margin on P2 is much higher than on CF cards etc.

The same thing goes for the sony alternative of course.

Incidentally, video is a relatively undemanding use for these cards. SSDs have a much harder time as they will be continually written to and erased from by the computer operating system. It is the amount of read/writes which eventually damages the chips, and this will be relatively few in the video field.