GH2 Panasonic GH2, Real Estate shooting

[sidecar]

Im a Real Estate shooter who is adding video to the product mix...

The object of what I want to do is produce 2 minutes of video in 16x9
so that my client can insert it into a business youtube channel
embed that into a web page back to his site.

I have a Panasonic GH2 hacked with Sanity 4.1, Ive been trialling the camera using dolly and track as well as pans to check out the quality but found it somewhat lacking
Ive been shooting it at 1920x1080 1080i FSH. The motion isnt smooth, in fact its pretty terrible, file sizes come out pretty large for what Im doing...
below are from the GH2 with Konica AR 40/1.8,
Ive played with it up to 128,000ISO but these are about 5000, shutter speed 1/100th on the track and travel, and 1/50th on the pan
http://youtu.be/Li7PIcE0U48
http://youtu.be/RP4iZN_uwGw

My original idea of this was to shoot maximum sizes and bring them down to something more useful in youtube in Corel Video Studio, but I have no idea what formats or codecs would be working best for me
In an attempt to troubleshoot the file size issue, I went down from AVCH 1080i to AVCH 720p, but the camera has crashed each time, I get a message that says 'Motion Recording was Cancelled Due to The Limitation of the Write Speed of the Card' (32Gb SD Class 10) so I guess thats out

Ok so I need some help
1) I'm not sure of my selection of hack, or indeed if I should have hacked it at all
2) I don't know if my shooting large size and reducing in processing is a good strategy, or shooting closer to finished dimesions is better
3) I don't know what format or codec I should be using, we don't need very big, I guess just 'typical' youtube dimensions
4) I need smaller upload packages as the ones Im getting will take half a day to upload due to low speed connection (Im rurally located), converting to .wmv 'seems' the most size efficient, but its still going to be massive for 2 minutes
5) I need smoother flow than Im getting, even the file right out of the camera is awful, I have no idea what is wrong there

thanks in advance for any help or suggestions anyone can provide...

 

[awelgraven]

Is there a reason you're shooting 1080i? Interlaced isn't going to look that good on the web. I normally shoot everything at 30p or 24p. For 30p shutter, I choose 1/60th and for 24p's shutter, I choose 1/50th.

I use the Cake hack. I only have class 6 cards, and I've never had a problem in any mode with the Cake hack. That being said... you could probably due without the hack if you're output is going to be compressed for web. But that's just my opinion.

I'm assuming you're using a PC, so i'm not sure what you're encoding options are. I think Youtube and Vimeo prefer H.264 based media for uploading. Vimeo have some good guidelines (https://vimeo.com/help/compression) that are also applicable to YouTube.

 

[brunerww]

sidecar - I shoot 1080/30p 24mbps HBR or 1080/24p 17mbps FSH unhacked, edit native in Vegas on an old Windows Vista machine and upload straight to Vimeo and YouTube. If I'm away from home, I edit native in free Windows Movie Maker in Windows 7 and upload to Vimeo and YouTube (which gives me the same vignetting I see in your Garwood 3 clip).

It can sometimes take around an hour with broadband for a 10 minute clip, so I imagine it would take an excruciatingly long time with dialup.

If I were you, I would unhack the camera and lower my recording quality to 13mbps FH in manual movie mode. Shooting 50-70mbps with Sanity 4.1 is going to make for huge files and extremely long upload times - especially with dialup.

Good luck!

Bill

 

[mcbob]

Why on earth are you shooting at ISO 5000? Do you exclusively videotape fallout shelters? Ideally, turn on enough light, open enough windows, and use a fast enough lens to stay at ISO 800 or lower. That will be your first increase to quality.

Second, many of the high bitrate hacks only really consider 24/25p, and their 60i and 720 modes are an afterthought (if they work at all). I've never used the Sanity hack, so I can't speak as to whether that's causing any of the issues you're having. However, I have gotten decent results from the stock codec, and it works perfectly well for web output. For web, I generally only use 24/25 or 30p, as the smoothness of interlaced shooting often isn't translated through a computer anyway. Using a slower frame rate (ie, 40 when shooting at 24p) can help smooth motion... but you have to keep your movements slow and smooth or they blur quite badly.

Third, your pan and dolly are a little on the fast side. Slowing down your movements will help reduce any movement artifacts.

Fourth, I don't know Corel Studios capabilities, but ideally your output prior to YouTube or Vimeo upload should be h.264 encoding (probably .mp4 wrapper) at about 5000-8000kbps (either service will squash them down to this rate eventually).

Here's a link to a real estatish video I did a couple months back, using AF100, GH2, and the Lumix 7-14 and Leica D 14-50.
http://vimeo.com/38387911

password is "business" (I think)

 

[sidecar]

Is there a reason you're shooting 1080i? Interlaced isn't going to look that good on the web. I normally shoot everything at 30p or 24p. For 30p shutter, I choose 1/60th and for 24p's shutter, I choose 1/50th.

I had this 'idea' that shooting 1080i and more or less downsampling would provide the most detail. And since I shoot indoors quite a lot, I'm always going to be fighting our (Australia) 50htz light frequency, sometimes thats more of a pain than others.

I use the Cake hack. I only have class 6 cards, and I've never had a problem in any mode with the Cake hack. That being said... you could probably due without the hack if you're output is going to be compressed for web. But that's just my opinion.

I'm assuming you're using a PC, so i'm not sure what you're encoding options are. I think Youtube and Vimeo prefer H.264 based media for uploading. Vimeo have some good guidelines (https://vimeo.com/help/compression) that are also applicable to YouTube.

ah yes, I do recall seeing that site some time ago, thanks for your input.

 

[sidecar]

sidecar - I shoot 1080/30p 24mbps HBR or 1080/24p 17mbps FSH unhacked, edit native in Vegas on an old Windows Vista machine and upload straight to Vimeo and YouTube. If I'm away from home, I edit native in free Windows Movie Maker in Windows 7 and upload to Vimeo and YouTube (which gives me the same vignetting I see in your Garwood 3 clip).

It can sometimes take around an hour with broadband for a 10 minute clip, so I imagine it would take an excruciatingly long time with dialup.

If I were you, I would unhack the camera and lower my recording quality to 13mbps FH in manual movie mode. Shooting 50-70mbps with Sanity 4.1 is going to make for huge files and extremely long upload times - especially with dialup.

Good luck!

Bill

not quite as bad as dialup, but 300-400 kbps upload, yes it takes awhile.
Unhacking seems like it might be a good idea, but aren't there consequences for me being in a PAL environment?
thanks for your thoughts

 

[MadMonkFish]

I'd say, for real estate, try unhacked first.

Video settings wise, you need to think of the camera as a film/video camera rather than a stills camera... so shutter really should stay around 1/50 (plenty of threads on this subject - lower will give you a bit more blur - higher gives you more staccato and Saving Private Ryan effects). So, if you're shooting video - try and keep at 1/50 and use ND's if you're shooting outside.

ISO wise - keep it lower if you can, as you'll just get noise as you push higher... there's no reason you can't take a cam top light (continuous) with you to have a little more illumination

Track/pan/slider wise - the slide shot is too fast... there's a certain speed that you need to go to counter frame strobing (and judder). This has always been the case even on movies - check out the threads on that too... there's even an ASC guide to speed of pans/camera moves that you might find helpful. Try slowing down the move and having a shutter of 1/50 or less (1/48 is normal for films' 180 degree shutter angle - but only the more high end/specific vid/digital cameras allow this setting).

On the GH1/GH2 you'll also get an increased strobe effect on motion if you're shooting high contrast elements -ie a dolly shot or pan over a white picket fence against an overgrown garden in the background. This frame cadence issue is well known amongst the GH1/2 community and there are various ways to deal with it - all with differing results. this strobe happens as the camera is adding sharpening (even at lower settings) and it's making more still images rather than blurred images as high-con elements sit on the frame (look at the Tessive filter for an explanation of this - you get it, to varying degrees, with most digital sensors).

Play with your settings and see what you get

 

[sidecar]

Why on earth are you shooting at ISO 5000? Do you exclusively videotape fallout shelters? Ideally, turn on enough light, open enough windows, and use a fast enough lens to stay at ISO 800 or lower. That will be your first increase to quality.

ISO 5000 because thats where the exposure balanced at the time
I shoot Olympus E5 for stills, and I can get down to 1/10th sec routinely with Zuiko wides like 7-14 shot at f/4.5. Doing that I can shoot base ISO200 virtually all the time. It just so happened in the circumstances of the test it wasnt especially bright, and I was playing with the shutter speed between 1/50th and 1/100th to keep above the frequency of the house lighting.

Second, many of the high bitrate hacks only really consider 24/25p, and their 60i and 720 modes are an afterthought (if they work at all). I've never used the Sanity hack, so I can't speak as to whether that's causing any of the issues you're having. However, I have gotten decent results from the stock codec, and it works perfectly well for web output. For web, I generally only use 24/25 or 30p, as the smoothness of interlaced shooting often isn't translated through a computer anyway. Using a slower frame rate (ie, 40 when shooting at 24p) can help smooth motion... but you have to keep your movements slow and smooth or they blur quite badly.

it really looked to me as if the speeds are badly synced between the cameras native speed, and the codecs I have used before. I had this circumstance with my E5 30fps and 25fps coding.
I was told, but dont really know why other than the issue with lighting frequency, that I should be shooting 25fps

Third, your pan and dolly are a little on the fast side. Slowing down your movements will help reduce any movement artifacts.

Yes the pan and the travel was a little fast, I shall try keep the speed down and see what happens.

Fourth, I don't know Corel Studios capabilities, but ideally your output prior to YouTube or Vimeo upload should be h.264 encoding (probably .mp4 wrapper) at about 5000-8000kbps (either service will squash them down to this rate eventually).

Here's a link to a real estatish video I did a couple months back, using AF100, GH2, and the Lumix 7-14 and Leica D 14-50.
http://vimeo.com/38387911

password is "business" (I think)

yes I am offered 'H.264 Main Profile Video: 5000 Kbps' encoding, .mp4 wrapper @25fps

ah'.... I see the effect the kbps has on size now as I am just in the process of uploading another copy of the same file. Seems like it will be around 15 minutes
EDIT: well made it in 12 minutes for 14 seconds, that makes it a 102 minute upload for the intended clip size of 2 mins

thanks for your help

 

[sidecar]

I'd say, for real estate, try unhacked first.

Video settings wise, you need to think of the camera as a film/video camera rather than a stills camera... so shutter really should stay around 1/50 (plenty of threads on this subject - lower will give you a bit more blur - higher gives you more staccato and Saving Private Ryan effects). So, if you're shooting video - try and keep at 1/50 and use ND's if you're shooting outside.

1/50th, OK. Means I cant shoot 14mm EFL (it wont take filters) but I can still make 18mm EFL using a 9-18, thats fine

ISO wise - keep it lower if you can, as you'll just get noise as you push higher... there's no reason you can't take a cam top light (continuous) with you to have a little more illumination

yes I understand that, but I know already that isnt likely to work in most open plan interiors, I just have to pray theyre all going to be as bright as this
View attachment 52481

Track/pan/slider wise - the slide shot is too fast... there's a certain speed that you need to go to counter frame strobing (and judder). This has always been the case even on movies - check out the threads on that too... there's even an ASC guide to speed of pans/camera moves that you might find helpful. Try slowing down the move and having a shutter of 1/50 or less (1/48 is normal for films' 180 degree shutter angle - but only the more high end/specific vid/digital cameras allow this setting).

I have no idea what you are talking about but I will find out. Some research is in order

On the GH1/GH2 you'll also get an increased strobe effect on motion if you're shooting high contrast elements -ie a dolly shot or pan over a white picket fence against an overgrown garden in the background. This frame cadence issue is well known amongst the GH1/2 community and there are various ways to deal with it - all with differing results. this strobe happens as the camera is adding sharpening (even at lower settings) and it's making more still images rather than blurred images as high-con elements sit on the frame (look at the Tessive filter for an explanation of this - you get it, to varying degrees, with most digital sensors).

Play with your settings and see what you get

thank you !