Panasonic finally admits 1080i/60i is inferior to 1080p/60p

M

mpgxsvcd

Veteran
Looks like Panasonic has changed their tone with the introduction of their latest camcorders. They touted the benefits of 1080i with the GH2 and now they dispel those myths with the introduction of their new 1080p @ 60 FPS camcorders.

We really need the hack for the GH2 to enable 1080p @ 60 FPS. 1080p @ 24 FPS is great in some situations. However, 1080p @ 60 FPS is so much more flexible.

http://www.panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/hd/900_800_series/feature1.html#more2
 
This is old news my Panny TM700 does 50p (uk model) they could of done it for GH2 but probably want camcorder sales ;-)
 
This is funny... Panasonic "finally admits" this? I don't know why people have to put this type of spin on things.

For the record -- Panasonic's always been opposed to 60i. They led the charge to have HD be centered on 60p instead of 60i in the first place. The VariCam was all progressive. Panasonic's made their entire name on progressive. Sony shoved interlaced down the market's throat. Panasonic doesn't want it, never liked it, and wishes it would go away. Which is the first of the big companies to offer 60p? Panasonic put out 60p on their TM700, and they put true 1080/60p (overcranked) on the AF100.

If you want to hate on interlace, hate on Sony. It's their baby. Panasonic (and JVC) have been pushing progressive for years and years.
 
It is news because they are finally touting 60p. Yes they have had 1080p @ 60 FPS in cameras before. However, they didn't really advertise it. And yes they are crippling the GH2 because they want to sell you a camcorder as well. Or at least they want to sell you a GH3 after you have already bought a GH2.
 
Barry_Green said:
This is funny... Panasonic "finally admits" this? I don't know why people have to put this type of spin on things.

For the record -- Panasonic's always been opposed to 60i. They led the charge to have HD be centered on 60p instead of 60i in the first place. The VariCam was all progressive. Panasonic's made their entire name on progressive. Sony shoved interlaced down the market's throat. Panasonic doesn't want it, never liked it, and wishes it would go away. Which is the first of the big companies to offer 60p? Panasonic put out 60p on their TM700, and they put true 1080/60p (overcranked) on the AF100.

If you want to hate on interlace, hate on Sony. It's their baby. Panasonic (and JVC) have been pushing progressive for years and years.
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Then why does the GH2 shoot interlaced? Also why haven't they been shouting from the mountain tops that they are basically the only ones with 1080p @ 60 FPS like they appear to be doing now? They like interlaced just fine if it means they can sell you a progressive camera next year.
 
mpgxsvcd said:
Then why does the GH2 shoot interlaced? Also why haven't they been shouting from the mountain tops that they are basically the only ones with 1080p @ 60 FPS like they appear to be doing now? They like interlaced just fine if it means they can sell you a progressive camera next year.
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You're free to believe whatever you want, of course, but that doesn't make it true. Panasonic is the first manufacturer bringing 1080/60p to camcorders. Why does the GH2 shoot interlaced? Because every video camera on earth that does 1080, shoots interlaced, that's why. 60p is a fledgling premature format, which they're very tentatively starting to offer in some of their cameras. The top-of-the-line $60,000 VariCam 3700 doesn't even have it yet. Sony's brand-new mega-wonderkind cinealta F3 doesn't have it either. It does 1080/60i or 720/60p.

I just don't understand why people point the finger of condemnation at the one place that's actually trying to do what they want. That makes no sense to me. People complain that there are no fast zooms for m4/3, when in fact 4/3 and m4/3 have the fastest zooms available for any camera system. People complain that they don't have 60p, but they point the finger of doom at the one company that's actually endorsing and promoting 60p. Why aren't you complaining that Sony has *zero* 60p camcorders on the market?

Finally -- why 60i instead of 60p? Because there's no broadcast standard for delivery of 60p. So what are you going to do with that 60p? You sure aren't going to broadcast it, you're not going to put it on a blu-ray, you're not going to play it on your television, because none of that works. The only way to see it... is to convert it to 60i. Because that's what the standard is. Or use it in slow-mo, like the AF100 does.
 
I find it significant that Panasonic labels the HS/TM900's 1080p60 video mode as "MPEG-4 AVC/H.264", while the lower frame rate modes are described as "AVCHD standard compliant". This shows that Panasonic is not constrained to AVCHD technical limitations, and is free to upgrade its video codecs to take advantage of advanced hardware capabilities. Since AVCHD is one of the profiles of the AVC/H.264 family of standards, the distinction they are making is an issue of marketing rather than technology. "AVCHD" is simply a brand name jointly trademarked by Panasonic and Sony that commercially labels a specific subset of the AVC/H.264 standard. It has been useful as a benchmark of mutual compatibility between Panasonic's consumer camcorders, Blu-ray players, and HDTV's, but real-time video capture requirements have outgrown the limitations of "AVCHD standard compliant".
 
mpgxsvcd said:
And yes they are crippling the GH2 because they want to sell you a camcorder as well. Or at least they want to sell you a GH3 after you have already bought a GH2.
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This is an interesting theory. Can you provide a source to back up your claim or are you just speculating?
 
I have the TM700 3MOS 1080p60 camcorder that works great for shooting family videos were you want a small sensor for a deep DOF and power zoom lens but the GH2 is more fun to use with a myriad of lens combos.
 
This thread is kind of ridiculous. When did Panasonic ever say 60i wasn't inferior to 60p? Why do you even want 60p? You can't watch it on anything. Someone close this thread. It's nonsense.
 
It is not useless at all, its totally relevant, for PAL people all we ever wanted was 50p actually at a higher resolution than the currently offered 720p. For converting to 25p, slo-mo in post and superior temporal-resolution and AF, 1080p50 would of been amazing. So no, they give us 24p in pal, 50hz countries and a 17mb 1080i. OK, they are still good, but wow pal people have been short changed, and yes we all know we dont have to part with our money etc etc.
 
fishops said:
This is an interesting theory. Can you provide a source to back up your claim or are you just speculating?
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Just speculation right now. However, I believe it will happen. The GH3 will be the first m4/3s camera with 1080p @ 60 FPS unless the "Vitaliy edition" of the GH2 comes out first.
 
1080p @ 60 FPS is not very useful in its native form right now. However, 1080i/60i, 1080i/30p psf, and 1080p @ 24 FPS slow motion can all be derived from 1080p @ 60 FPS losslessly. I don't want it because I need to use 1080p @ 60 FPS. I want it because then I don't have to decide what format I am going to render to before I shoot the clip. With 1080p @ 60 FPS I can shoot in one format and decide what my final output will be later. That is something that I don't think Panasonic is aware we really want yet. They will realize it is important over the next year or so though.
 
If vdslr supports 1080p60, we know Panasonic is going to be the first one. So let's wait and see. It's already in the GH2 improvement list. I'm more concerned with their future avchd encoder impl.
 
mpgxsvcd said:
Looks like Panasonic has changed their tone with the introduction of their latest camcorders. They touted the benefits of 1080i with the GH2 and now they dispel those myths with the introduction of their new 1080p @ 60 FPS camcorders.

We really need the hack for the GH2 to enable 1080p @ 60 FPS. 1080p @ 24 FPS is great in some situations. However, 1080p @ 60 FPS is so much more flexible.

http://www.panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/hd/900_800_series/feature1.html#more2
Click to expand...

I think your attitude is a bit silly. I've enjoyed 1080 60p on my Panasonic TMV700 since it first came out. Panasonic was the first and only one to have it until Sony decided to get on the bandwagon with their latest camcorders.

What's funnier is that despite the 700's release with 60p, people complained no end "How do I edit this thing". Many/most computers weren't powerful enough to handle a 60p stream, so to edit effectively, you needed a high-powered computer. No matter what a manufacturer does, people complain. As a result of the high level of processing needed for 60p in the TMV700, Panasonic put in a cooling fan. In some cams the fan was somewhat audible during recording. Guess what? People complained.

Would you be happy with a fan in the GH2? Would you be happy with the computer requirements for effective editing with 60p in the GH2? Many would not. Manufacturers can't win no matter what they do. Somebody will always be unhappy.

I for one am VERY happy they decided to give the GH2 a full frame rate of 60i with the 1920X1080 resolution. Seems to me that once again Panasonic is first in this class of cameras with that feature. Will a GH3 have 1920X1080 60p? Perhaps, and if so I'll happily buy that one.

But you should come to the realization that Panasonic seems to lead the market in features within a given price class. Their track record is quite good and I think many of us are grateful.
 
Not really true. You can watch it on virtually any modern flat screen as well as most computer monitors that are attached to computers with the necessary processing power. But your comments raise precisely the point I made, no matter what they do someone will be unhappy.
 
There's entitlement mentality to all of this kind of stuff... I believe it's also this underlying sentiments that will make the Red company not introduce a low-end, affordable camera.. There's more of these kind of statements in the low-end market than you'll ever get from a high end marketplace.

I believe people think an 800 dollar camera should shoot 4k, nightvision, 300fps, thermal imaging, etc.
 
Mike@AF said:
This thread is kind of ridiculous. When did Panasonic ever say 60i wasn't inferior to 60p? Why do you even want 60p? You can't watch it on anything. Someone close this thread. It's nonsense.
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Not really true. You can watch it on virtually any modern flat screen as well as most computer monitors that are attached to computers with the necessary processing power. But your comments raise precisely the point I made, no matter what they do someone will be unhappy.
 
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