Panasonic DVX200 at EVS on August 18th & 19th

Jim Martin

Jim Martin

DVXuser Sponsor
Hey everyone here in LA, We are having the DVX200 visiting EVS on August 18th & 19th from 10-5. Stop in and get your hands on this exciting new camera coming in October. We'll have it set up on monitors so you can check out all the features that are coming in this neat new package.....
http://www.evsonline.com/store-events/

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
Got a few calls on this......From what we can tell, the camera we'll have is from the latest batch.......probably the same units that were used in Japan and what Barry green has now....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
Jim Martin said:
Got a few calls on this......From what we can tell, the camera we'll have is from the latest batch.......probably the same units that were used in Japan and what Barry green has now....

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
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Thanks Jim. I'm excited for your team to also test the new firmware of the LS300. The new LOG and dynamic range now seems important.
 
demoboy said:
Thanks Jim. I'm excited for your team to also test the new firmware of the LS300. The new LOG and dynamic range now seems important.
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Yes...we'll upgrade our free demo "try & buy" cameras and get some footage out. The JVC rep just left but we've not been given a firm day of release yet.

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
lovecameras said:
LS300 seems a better option
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Different animals in a way.....both are big chip cameras doing 1080 & 4K, cinema looks and frame rates close if not the same....but the DVX has a built in power zoom and that's something the reality shooters have been asking for. While they like working with the Canon C series, the thing that was lacking was an affordable power zoom option. The RedRock was the least expensive option at around $2500 vs the standard set ups costing $9-13,000. The new DVX is going to be a perfect solution for those needing this zoom feature.
The new firmware updates that are coming on the JVC will be a great addition to that camera......I think it will be a clearer picture once Panasonic announces pricing. If they are close to the JVC's price, I wouldn't be surprised if JVC reacts and lowers their price....but who knows.....exciting times for all!

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

PS- Reminder that we will have the DVX200 here at EVS on Tuesday & Wednesday the 18th & 19th so if you're in LA, plan on coming over!
 
Jim Martin said:
Different animals in a way.....both are big chip cameras doing 1080 & 4K, cinema looks and frame rates close if not the same....but the DVX has a built in power zoom and that's something the reality shooters have been asking for. While they like working with the Canon C series, the thing that was lacking was an affordable power zoom option. The RedRock was the least expensive option at around $2500 vs the standard set ups costing $9-13,000. The new DVX is going to be a perfect solution for those needing this zoom feature.
The new firmware updates that are coming on the JVC will be a great addition to that camera......I think it will be a clearer picture once Panasonic announces pricing. If they are close to the JVC's price, I wouldn't be surprised if JVC reacts and lowers their price....but who knows.....exciting times for all!

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com

PS- Reminder that we will have the DVX200 here at EVS on Tuesday & Wednesday the 18th & 19th so if you're in LA, plan on coming over!
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I agree with Jim. The only real problem I have with the LS300 is sensor coverage. I like to believe that it's been optimized for S35mm coverage in relation to cine lenses. Ive always been curious of pixel density science from th variable scan mapping off the LS300. Cropping around seems practical, but what's the best coverage for the LS300's 4K capture? For instance native MFT CP2 is optimized for MFT sensor coverage, not S35mm coverage. We have to use the PL adapter and standard s35 cine lenses for optimiz3d s35mm 4K capture. This is my assumption. I'm not against MFT. I believe the new M.Zuiko Pro series are the best MFT lenses atm.
 
If you use the re-map feature, as you go in from S35 to 86%, the 4K graphic pops up on the screen, MFT at 80%...and the same if you go down to, I think it is 56%, the S16 graphic pops up......

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
Reminder, Tomorrow and Wednesday the camera will be here at EVS.....I still have not been able to confirm which "batch" it is from....I suspect the same batch as what Barry has.....

Jim Martin
evsONLINE.COM
 
Consistent turnout so far today.....lots of good conversations as we all are discovering the camera. Also, Jonathan Lawrence stopped in to give us some insight to his shooting experience in Japan with the camera....
 
True North said:
Sooooo...what's the verdict? Does it suck or is it good :)
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That's the thing -- that opinion is entirely subjective on what you want to do with it. Some people will think it's the perfect camera for them; others will think it's totally the wrong one for them.

The only thing we can really definitively say is -- there's nothing else like it at its price point. It's unique. It's got some great aspects, but it's not an FS7. Then again, it's nearly 1/3 the price of the FS7 (with lens) so -- it would be unrealistic to expect it to be.

It's not a super low-light monster -- if your entire camera-shopping priority consists of the question "how is it in low light", then you probably aren't the target market for the DVX200. It's about comparable, maybe a little better, than the AC160/HPX250/PX270 series in those terms. But if you've got sufficient light, the pictures it makes are exquisite... and its usability is simply unparalleled for a large-sensor camera in this price bracket, or anywhere near this price bracket, especially for a 4K camera...

Some of you will love it, some won't care for it. The camera itself is a good camera -- but it depends on whether it suits your priorities or not.
 
Barry_Green said:
That's the thing -- that opinion is entirely subjective on what you want to do with it. Some people will think it's the perfect camera for them; others will think it's totally the wrong one for them.

The only thing we can really definitively say is -- there's nothing else like it at its price point. It's unique. It's got some great aspects, but it's not an FS7. Then again, it's nearly 1/3 the price of the FS7 (with lens) so -- it would be unrealistic to expect it to be.

It's not a super low-light monster -- if your entire camera-shopping priority consists of the question "how is it in low light", then you probably aren't the target market for the DVX200. It's about comparable, maybe a little better, than the AC160/HPX250/PX270 series in those terms. But if you've got sufficient light, the pictures it makes are exquisite... and its usability is simply unparalleled for a large-sensor camera in this price bracket, or anywhere near this price bracket, especially for a 4K camera...

Some of you will love it, some won't care for it. The camera itself is a good camera -- but it depends on whether it suits your priorities or not.
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Several times you have said it is not a FS7, what do you mean? It is obviously strongly in your consciousness.

Also, is the low light as bad as the GH4. That frankly was not acceptable to me for my needs. And then there is the issue of the GH4 taking brighter lenses, so is the total package less sensitive than the GH4? You compared the DVX200 to 1/3" 3MOS all-in-one sensor cameras with the reputation as being definitely not low light monsters, or even good in low light.
 
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I'm wondering about its low light abilities as well. i guess even if its a 1/2 stop better than the GH4 (not much) it gets diminished because you can never get faster than f2.8....and only worse when zoomed in. at least a GH4 you can put on a 1.4 or faster lens to save the day in really low light.

i know Barry is apprehensive of saying definitive things since its still a pre production camera but comparing its low light capabilities to the AC160/HPX250/PX270 is pretty disappointing but can see that the speed of the lens is much in play with this weakness. still i believe there will be much to like about this camera and for $4,200 the price is like Panasonic is daring people to not buy this camera.

I'm still hopeful and optimistic!

david
 
Barry_Green said:
That's the thing -- that opinion is entirely subjective on what you want to do with it. Some people will think it's the perfect camera for them; others will think it's totally the wrong one for them.

The only thing we can really definitively say is -- there's nothing else like it at its price point. It's unique. It's got some great aspects, but it's not an FS7. Then again, it's nearly 1/3 the price of the FS7 (with lens) so -- it would be unrealistic to expect it to be.

It's not a super low-light monster -- if your entire camera-shopping priority consists of the question "how is it in low light", then you probably aren't the target market for the DVX200. It's about comparable, maybe a little better, than the AC160/HPX250/PX270 series in those terms. But if you've got sufficient light, the pictures it makes are exquisite... and its usability is simply unparalleled for a large-sensor camera in this price bracket, or anywhere near this price bracket, especially for a 4K camera...

Some of you will love it, some won't care for it. The camera itself is a good camera -- but it depends on whether it suits your priorities or not.
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I'm interested in how well stabilization works in 4k? Also 1080p. What camera would you compare it to?
 
philiplipetz said:
Several times you have said it is not a FS7, what do you mean? It is obviously strongly in your consciousness.
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The FS7 is a great camera, and up until now it's really been the only large-sensor camera that had the type of lens that could conceivably make it usable as an events type of camera. The DVX200 now becomes an even more suitable type of camera for that, but it's not going to compete against the FS7's larger sensor, interchangeable lenses, or 240 fps. It's in a different class.

Also, is the low light as bad as the GH4. That frankly was not acceptable to me for my needs. And then there is the issue of the GH4 taking brighter lenses, so is the total package less sensitive than the GH4?
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Well, probably, yes. If you put a Voigtlander on a GH4, it's going to be more sensitive, at any given ISO, than a DVX200 will, because the DVX200 can't open up to f/0.95.

You compared the DVX200 to 1/3" 3MOS all-in-one sensor cameras with the reputation as being definitely not low light monsters, or even good in low light.
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I compared it against cameras that I tried against it, which delivered generally similar sensitivity. The larger sensor is definitely more sensitive in the DVX200, but the wider f-stop of the 1/3" cameras brings them back in line and makes them somewhat comparable. If you look at the published specs of the cameras, the DVX200 is listed as F/11 at 2000 LUX, at 3200k. The HPX250, IIRC, was F/10 at 2000 LUX at 3200K. The HPX250 opens up to f/1.6, vs. the DVX200's maximum of f/2.8, so that makes a big difference.

I find that the DVX200 is about 2/3 stop better in terms of noise performance than the 1/3" cameras, so you can go to ISO 800 and reap similar noise performance as the other cameras at about ISO 320, so there is some advantage. But it's not going to be like a 20,000 ISO DSLR with an f/1.2 lens on it.
 
david_p said:
I'm wondering about its low light abilities as well. i guess even if its a 1/2 stop better than the GH4 (not much) it gets diminished because you can never get faster than f2.8....and only worse when zoomed in. at least a GH4 you can put on a 1.4 or faster lens to save the day in really low light.
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That is an advantage you're always going to have with an interchangeable-lens camera. Fixed lenses and long zooms never open up as bright as prime lenses. The Voigtlander f/0.95 lenses just let in so much more light than any zoom lens is going to.

i know Barry is apprehensive of saying definitive things since its still a pre production camera but comparing its low light capabilities to the AC160/HPX250/PX270 is pretty disappointing but can see that the speed of the lens is much in play with this weakness.
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I'm just relaying it as I have discovered it. I am hoping to get a PL sample soon and will see if it's improved the situation any, but I'm not really expecting it to, or if it does, it will likely be a modest improvement, not a night-and-day improvement. I found the HPX250 an PX270 to be decent performers in any reasonable lighting condition, and the DVX200 is a bit better still, depending on what gamma you use (VLOG darkens the images noticeably, as all log gammas do, and would not be my first choice for a lower-light environment).

I still i believe there will be much to like about this camera and for $4,200 the price is like Panasonic is daring people to not buy this camera.
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There is a LOT to like about it, yes. Like I said, you just have to evaluate what it does, against what you need. If this is the right style of camera for you, I think you'll probably like it a lot. If what you really want is a 20,000 ISO small DSLR with interchangeable lenses, then this camera won't make you very happy. It is something new, and it's different from everything else out there. It's not perfect, you have to be practical in your expectations, but yes, the lower price makes it seriously interesting.

If you've been using something like the HPX250, PX270, AC160 etc., then this camera gives you a comparable-sized unit with all the usability, connectivity, and features that you're used to, along with much shallower DOF and hyper-crisp 4K resolution, 120 fps slow mo, and a whole bunch of other features (like a 16-pole color matrix, VLOG gamma, etc). It is an all-in-one that lets you replace your existing HPX250, EX1, and DSLR, with one camera that can do it all (such as shooting a concert or sporting event and then going into an office and setting up a film-style shallow-DOF interview, or working conventions during the week and making your films on the weekends, etc). However, there are certain practical limitations that come with a 13x power zoom with video-style autofocus and image stabilization, and one of those limitations is that the lens doesn't let in as much light as a prime lens will. That limits the overall sensitivity back to where it's on par with the existing 1/3" cameras or thereabouts. So it's not a step back from the existing cameras, it is in fact a little better in sensitivity even after factoring in the iris on the lens, but it's not a quantum leap forward from the prior 1/3" cameras in terms of sensitivity. (meaning, even though it is notably more sensitive, the lens's minimum f-stop is more open on the smaller-chip cameras, which lets more light in, which about compensates for the DVX's bigger chip's sensitivity advantage).
 
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when can we expect your book? such a book would definitely boost sales, especially for people not used to cameras with so many settings/
 
philiplipetz said:
Several times you have said it is not a FS7, what do you mean? It is obviously strongly in your consciousness.

Also, is the low light as bad as the GH4. That frankly was not acceptable to me for my needs. And then there is the issue of the GH4 taking brighter lenses, so is the total package less sensitive than the GH4? You compared the DVX200 to 1/3" 3MOS all-in-one sensor cameras with the reputation as being definitely not low light monsters, or even good in low light.
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Depends on what you define as good in low light. For a 1/3" camera, the PX270 seemed to do pretty good for low light. It wasn't an S35 camera with a F1.4 lens on it, but for folks doing event work coming from 1/3" cameras, if the DVX200 does any better then the PX270, that's a win in my book. I mean, I just shot an event with my GH4 because it was so much better with an F2.8 lens than my HMC150. If the DVX200 is more sensitive with better noise at higher ISO's than my GH4 at, say, F3.5, then I think there will be a segment of the market that will be quite pleased.
 
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