Panasonic D5 or Sony HDCAM

imgentertainment@mac

imgentertainment@mac

The Reverend
Hey Guys,
I ok so when we do our final out put for sending our film to film festivals. We are going to come out of our editor on an AJA Kona 3 card and what tape deck format should be got to. Should we got to D5, or should we go HDCAM or HADCAM SR? Would festivals have both decks or are they more likely to have one over the other.

Thanks Don
 
Hmm...film festivals would probably vary widely in the formats that they screen with, largely depending on studio affiliations, sponsorships and money available. D5 decks and HDCAM SR decks rent for a LOT more than regular HDCAM decks. If Sony sponsors a festival, you can bet that you won't see D5 decks and the same with Panasonic, you wouldn't see HDCAM decks at a Panasonic affiliated event probably.

Generally, all of the studios have all of their edit master assets on D5, not HDCAM but I would imagine that Sony related entities have their assets on HDCAM SR, although that is a fairly new format.

I would just inquire per festival. If your project is on D5, it's not the hardest thing in the world to clone it to HDCAM, or vice-versa.

Dan
 
I believe that D5 is closer to uncompressed than regular HDCAM (I think it still has some compression?) That's why Sony introduced the HDCAM SR. The big reason I prefer D5 is that it can record 720 24P, which is 99% of what I shoot, whereas with HDCAM, you have to upres to 1080i, which is a pain.

Of course D5 can also record various flavors of 1080 as well, which, if they are projecting your image and blowing it up in size, is superior to 720.

All three formats can look awesome so in reality, D5 or the HDCAM SR would be the best choice but I don't think very many people or organizations have HDCAM SR decks, more people have D5, it is better established. I would not compress down to regular HDCAM, if you think that there would ever be a chance of needing D5 or HDCAM SR.

Best,

Dan
 
I've never heard of a festival projecting D5. If it's HD it's usually HDCAM and that's also pretty rare because the deck rentals are a fortune. For most of them in terms of digital projection you'll probably wind up with a Digibeta or BetaSP downcovert. Sad but true...

Noah
 
I know what you mean. We have totally gone HD at work, shoot only HD and have a really nice Nitris Symphony, yet 95% of what we are delivering right now is NTSC. It hurts to futureproof.

Dan
 
So I think I'll put all of my masters and work prints on D5 and from there I'm going to have a lab give me two HDCAM dubs and two digibeta dubs. So I think this will cover me. But I agree with you that this shooting HD and then having to dealiver SD. But I looks like really good SD
 
puredrifting said:
I believe that D5 is closer to uncompressed than regular HDCAM (I think it still has some compression?) That's why Sony introduced the HDCAM SR. The big reason I prefer D5 is that it can record 720 24P, which is 99% of what I shoot, whereas with HDCAM, you have to upres to 1080i, which is a pain.

Of course D5 can also record various flavors of 1080 as well, which, if they are projecting your image and blowing it up in size, is superior to 720.

All three formats can look awesome so in reality, D5 or the HDCAM SR would be the best choice but I don't think very many people or organizations have HDCAM SR decks, more people have D5, it is better established. I would not compress down to regular HDCAM, if you think that there would ever be a chance of needing D5 or HDCAM SR.

Best,

Dan
Click to expand...

You could master to D5 or HDCAM SR in 720p, but you probably won't want to unless you're making a master for HD broadcast (FOX, ESPN..etc)


If you are going to master for FILM print or Festival play use D5 or HDCAM SR, at 1920x1080. Not 1035, not 720p.

-Most major festivals will ask for HDCAM. Many will only be using J-H3 decks so there won't be any DOLBY E decoding, during projection. A good thing to check in advance.

-Any tape based film out is uprezzed to 1920 anyway, and it's better that you have control over that process.

-Most major festivals are using native 1920x1080 or better HD projection. Save yourself any possibilities of a new artifact, even if it's remote.

- If you can afford to, keep your work in the digital domain (hard drive) and have your color-correct, max 8 (D5) or 12 (SR)channel mix master up/cross converted. Don't output to tape before the conversion if you don't have to. If you do have to, look in to multiple options and see if they'll do a 2-3 min sample. Not all outboard boxes (including Teranex) products are the same.

- The least expensive option will be a deck based conversion, and for most people it will probably be fine. If you are working with SRW-5500 it produces a good upconvert.

D5 is 4:1 compression. SR is 2.7:1 compression. SR there's an option of dual link SDI for the maximum 880/mbps. But there's a limited amount of recording time.

Of course it helps if you get into the festivals or have a broadcast deal before you worry too much about this stuff :)

I.
 
In Cannes this year I know for a fact that Southland Tales was projected from a 'digital print' not tape stock of any kind. And the UK Film Council uses digital prints too.
 
Digital Print was most likely played back off of a QuVIS server. Quite often this is for playback of resolutions beyond 1920x1080. Southland Tales was probably a 2K projection, I don't know, it's just a guess.

This is generally the method of playback of 2K (or larger) releases, as most modern D-Cinema projectors are native 2K.

The QuVIS systems are capable of lower resolution playback and it's great, since there's no changing tapes. I just don't know any festivals springing for the rental and using it for lower resolution projection.

I.
 
did you see southland tales? Did you like it? How was it?

Thanks guys. We are keeping our files in digital. And if the festival has the option to project it in a digital way we will go with that. But we are finding that most want HD CAM or digi Beta. So I guess that is the two to worry about. But we also would like a tape back up. So would you go D5 or HD CAM SR. and as for the upconversion. Don't most decks come with and upconversion card? And will do it durring when we playto the deck?
 
imgentertainment@mac said:
. Don't most decks come with and upconversion card? And will do it during when we playto the deck?
Click to expand...

Not exactly. Some decks will perform format conversion some won't. It's much cheaper to have someone else make a couple dubs or conversion for you then it is to rent the decks. Also, the menu system on HDCAM/HDCAM SR decks is not particularly intuitive. There's a ton of options, and several optional cards, if you're not familiar with it- you could easily spend hours trying to figure it out. Make sure you get a manual! Although, the manuals are not particularly well written in English.

If you hire a post house to do it, they will want to sell you the tape stock. You're going to want the work to be guaranteed so you'll want to use their stock. That being said you should ask them what they are charging on the stock and then call around. I've seen a couple post houses charge 100-250% of street price on stock. If you have a good account rep, you can call them on this and ask for a more modest mark up, if they are at all indie friendly they should be willing to help you on stock. A stock cost of 20-30% over street price is fair for guaranteed results.

Also the projectionists at most film festivals will not know how to send an unconverted signal from the deck, if that's what you're planning. You'll need to idiot proof it for them as much as possible. Send proper resolution/frame rate tapes, which include SMPTE bars, tone, black, countdown, 2-pop etc. If you get in to a premiere level festival they'll send you the technical requirement for digital projection.

I.
 
But as for on our end. Could be get persay a D5 deck and take our 720 sequence in FCP print it to tape using our Kona 3 card and record on the deck at 1080? or would we have to get an up converter box from Miranda or someone.

I would like to make the masters on our end, and then send out to get dubs or format conversion ie. D5 to HDCAM or Digi Beta.
 
I know for a fact that the AJ-HD3700 will take in a 720P/59.94 signal and record it to tape. I also know that once it's recorded it can upcomvert that tape signal to most every flavor of 1080 via HDSDI.

Can the AJ-HD3700 upconvert the 720p signal to 1080 on-the-fly change and record that to tape? I really don't know. However, I truly doubt it. There would require some sort of buffer/delay on the input side of the deck and I think those exist only on the output side. I could be wrong, it's truly a question for Jan or someone else here.

Keep in mind the 3700 deck is about the most expensive deck you can rent. Plan on a day rate north of $1400-1500 as a deal. List rates for a 3700 are usually around $1800. You should be able to have a professional upconversion for that kind of money, (hell probably two) and you won't have the hassles.

I.
 
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