EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

Status
Not open for further replies.
WB statement doesn't bother me much as that should be easily tweakable upon a firmware update.

Biggest negatives to me:
- overall aesthetic seems affected by the 5.7K sensor (user preference - others may like or prefer).
- lowlight is no real improvement over competition
- no 4k 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 like the FS7
- underwhelming LCD screen necessitates addition of extra weight/bulk/complexity/power draw
- ND filters stop short of higher options which would be extremely valuable, and will necessitate adding lens-mounted ND filters for shallow DoF in bright outdoor light

Semi-Neutral statements & observations:
- 240fps underwhelms a bit, forced lower ISO and DR is disappointing, but this isn't worse than competition and its pushing the enveleope anyway... just don't expect too much
- EIS tests extremely limited so far, but seem to introduce some expected EIS artifacts and will likely need to remain off for more professional use cases
- Sony's e-mount offers benefits and flexibility over native EF mount
- nothing truly breakthrough here (5.7k sensor is a mixed bag; dual ISO and lowlight equates to no real jump, no major breakthrough or distinguishing features in slow motion modes)
- Sony electronic variable ND is superior
- misc quirks with UI, but this is present in all cameras and tools
- AF is nothing to truly use for pro work

Positives
- Size and weight is incredible, best-in-class, and there is nothing like this on market
- Panasonic is very reliable, good build quality, good menus, great ergos
- Overall very well rounded feature set
- Varicam color science
- competitive pricing
- highest resolving camera in class, with no real light loss - if you are into that
- SD media, great internal codecs overall

Unknowns
- Quality of audio pre-amps?
- HD 120 slow motion impressions?
- Further footage in more users hands to assess what looks the camera is capable of?
- Further EIS tests?

EVA-1 Firmware Wishlist
- 100, 150, 200, 400mbps options available in ALL-I *and* in LONG-GOP, for all modes (1080, 4k). 200mbps LONG-GOP and 400mbps LONG-GOP in 2k/1080 mode would be highly desireable. High mbps LongGOP options for high FPS slow motion options would also be desireable.
- Fix WB issues and other quirks
- Improve noise and Base ISO 2500 more
- Detail Reduction scene file setting - any smart ways to get the camera to soften up the image, in camera
- Tweaks to how ISO is handled in high FPS (let the ISO drop as the framerate goes up in MIX mode, not just one forced lower settings to "avoid confusion"). We ain't dumb!
- 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 @ 60p

EVA-2 Wishlist
- JK ;)
 
Now I think most of this would be okay if the price was lower...

I know we joke around that pricier cameras should be able to make you lattes and such...but for $7500 it should be able to make you lattes and such.
 
NorBro said:
Now I think most of this would be okay if the price was lower...

I know we joke around that pricier cameras should be able to make you lattes and such...but for $7500 it should be able to make you lattes and such.
Click to expand...

Should it though? Haha, I know what you mean... but, I guess I just don't realistically see what else could happen in this price range.

It's a very weird time to buy a camera right now. People think it's a great time, and in a way it is. Throw a dart, hit a camera at random, and you can probably make something very pretty with it.

I think it's not such a great time. There's become an increasing amount of diminished returns with each new release, and yet you still have to pay a big premium to move up. Hard to really get wow'd anymore, without going way above this into Alexa/Helium/Varicam territory.

I think it looks solid, but there's definitely a feeling of "oh, okay. Seen this before". Which makes it not so fun to plunk down near $10,000. The low end is increasingly getting better, so you have to make a big price jump to see a relatively small benefit. Or you have to make a monstrous price jump in order to actually see a big improvement.
 
I just mean it should be really good for a certain price. Any camera.

But yea...your post should pretty much be a sticky for anyone to read if they are thinking about upgrading...totally agree with every word and have preached myself.

It really is either $2K or $50K, ha. (Of course there are some exceptions.)
 
Look you have an array of 4k super 35mm cams with wide dynamic range recording in a high quality codec under 10k.
Just think about it. It's absolutely amazing.
 
Yea, but that's on paper...

If the camera doesn't deliver, what do I care? If a lower-end camera delivers nicer images than a higher-end camera, the specs are irrelevant to me.

Specs are pointless if the images stink.
 
And the real compromises that come with different platforms. Not at all being negative here just adding to the discussion that there are real trade-offs to be considered. The GH5 IBIS is absolutely amazing, and even better with Dual IS. Compared to EIS in the EVA-1, there's a real trade-off for some shooters (like me) to get access to the vastly better DR and highlight rendering it offers. IBIS has been game-changing in the last 6 months.
 
The WB "issue" newshooter mentioned seems like a non-issue to me. Weirdly he said you have to go into the menu to get AWB but really you can just do it from the scroll wheel, just roll it through your presets to AWB and click the AWB button. I used the EVA1 for a while and was actually quite impressed by the WB options and control. Many other cameras don't allow you to dial in or set tint in your presets or even save manual presets.

I also think it's very easy to lose sight of reality when comparing specs and single reviews. This camera really only matters in direct comparison to its competition, which is the C200, Ursa Mini Pro, FS7, etc. It still remains to be seen where the image falls in direct comparison. Without side-by-side testing any camera with 13+stops of DR can look good in a vacuum. People treat one-off reviews and subjective opinion reviews as though they have more weight than they should. I have tested a few cameras that I have used extensively, and I know first hand how hard it is to stay objective about image quality. In my testing and in my pixel peeping of other people's relatively objective tests it seems clear that there are two different ranges of cameras. One I would call last-generation, meaning cameras that manufacturers can quote as "14 stops of DR" and have it be true but only just so. The next tier of cameras may also state 14 or 15 or 16 stops of DR, but by the same testing methodology reveals about 1-3 more stops of DR than what I'd deem last-generation. C300mk2, C200, F5, FS5, FS7, BMCC, etc are last-generation. Varicams, RED Dragon/Helium, Arri Alexa/Amira (yeah still current generation) are next-generation, and believe it or not but Ursa Mini Pro falls closer to next-generation if you don't mind some of the FPN...

It still remains to be seen where EVA1 falls. If it shows itself to be more last-gen DR it will be a very hard sell given the various draws of a C200 and FS7/FS5. If it is closer to next-gen sensor then all bets are off since the only real image competition it has in the price range is Ursa Mini Pro which has a variety of drawbacks as an all-around camera. Frankly people have a lot of trouble judging most image attributes objectively unless they are comparing directly against another camera, so it's hard to see where it falls.

When you consider C200/FS7/FS5 are more like last generation sensors in terms of DR (not to mention C200 doesn't have 4K HFR or any codec options between 150Mbps and 1000Mbps) and that Ursa Mini Pro is a bit of a step up in image (but also has FPN issues) but a step down in ergonomics and missing a lot of essential run-and-gun features and only really works properly shooting log, it becomes clear that there is a big opening for EVA1 to fill all the holes in the market. Better DR? Better VFR? Better Codecs? Better operator experience? Better out of the box color? Maybe.
 
Last edited:
Colinelves said:
I’m not sure that makes sense. Users may also be wanting to use the mode as a ‘digital extender’ at normal frame ratesin which case losing that extra stop of DR and sensitivity is just unhelpful.

It would make much more sense to just have the ISO drop only when it needs to. Basically. We’re all adults here, so I feel letting the user make their own decisions is generally the best approach.

All you would need to do is provide a note in the manual to explain what happens and why.

Something that people who read the manual can use to explain to those people that don’t read the manual and ask questions on forums they could have answered themselves, had they read the manual.
Click to expand...

If people want a "digital extender" then there's a lot easier way to do it. The EVA1 offers a Digital Zoom feature, which is a 1.4x punch in. That's actually a bit more than the difference between Super-35 and 4/3", and you can program a User Button to do it. That way it's available on the fly with no change in recording codec, sensitivity, etc.
 
nyvz said:
The WB "issue" newshooter mentioned seems like a non-issue to me. Weirdly he said you have to go into the menu to get AWB but really you can just do it from the scroll wheel, just roll it through your presets to AWB and click the AWB button. I used the EVA1 for a while and was actually quite impressed by the WB options and control. Many other cameras don't allow you to dial in or set tint in your presets or even save manual presets.
Click to expand...

I must agree with you here. I try not to counter reviews because people are certainly entitled to their opinions, and in general I think the Newsshooter review to be balanced and fair. But I disagree with Matt's assessment here. There is a toggle switch which allows direct control of White Balance. In the WB position, rotate a wheel to scroll through any presets you might have put into memory, up to 12 of them. Scroll through the presets and you hit the Auto White Balance setting (the white balance numerical display adds an "A" in the front when at the Auto setting). Then tap the AWB button to capture a new Auto White Balance. If you wish to keep grabbing new AWB settings, just leave it the scroll wheel at the AWB position and tap the AWB button any time you desire. If you want to lock out the button and scroll wheel so that you don't accidentally change the WB, flip the toggle off of WB. This is all similar to the way White Balance is set on a classic shoulder mount ENG camera. That would have a toggle switch for two presets and the AWB recorded in memory. A button in front would be how a new AWB would be activated. The only difference really is that EVA1 allows up to 12 presets instead of just two. I guess if that's confusing one could just put two presets into memory.
 
Mitch Gross said:
If people want a "digital extender" then there's a lot easier way to do it. The EVA1 offers a Digital Zoom feature, which is a 1.4x punch in. That's actually a bit more than the difference between Super-35 and 4/3", and you can program a User Button to do it.
Click to expand...

A question on this: is it actually a "digital zoom"? Or is it a 1:1 pixel scan of the central 4k out of the 5.7k sensor? That's the way Panasonic has implemented "I.Zoom" on other cameras and it is of course much better quality than a typical digital zoom. I am assuming it is a punch-in and using a full raster image to make it's frame, but I figure it is worth verifying.
 
Mitch Gross said:
I must agree with you here. I try not to counter reviews because people are certainly entitled to their opinions, and in general I think the Newsshooter review to be balanced and fair. But I disagree with Matt's assessment here. There is a toggle switch which allows direct control of White Balance.
Click to expand...
Let's keep in mind that Matt began his review saying that he only had access to the camera for (I think) 3 days... Is it simply a case of nobody demonstrated that feature and it not being obvious, and if it was pointed out to him he might be willing to update his review? I know I have had the experience many times of showing someone a feature that they never knew was on their camera, and they are always so grateful.
 
Barry_Green said:
Let's keep in mind that Matt began his review saying that he only had access to the camera for (I think) 3 days... Is it simply a case of nobody demonstrated that feature and it not being obvious, and if it was pointed out to him he might be willing to update his review? I know I have had the experience many times of showing someone a feature that they never knew was on their camera, and they are always so grateful.
Click to expand...

Matt did update the text of his post (at the time I read it yesterday afternoon) to mention that he didn't have the manual available when he tested it but found out about the dial later.
 
Here are 3 very mediocre / under-produced LT pieces that are shot sort of run'n'gun style, natural light, questionable grades, etc. No different or better production values than what's been shared above, maybe worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzj1TSFnodA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pDvGUiwN40&t=16s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar-zxK5CCh4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEFoAgH3L_8

Can't put a finger on it, but in every EVA-1 clip I've seen, well composed, perfectly lit, cinematifcally shot, crop bars added, whatever - there's just a sort of rigid lifelessness to them. Like they are flat. All of these, even semi-slapped together LT clips, just pop with a richness, life, character, smoothness, mojo, whatever.

Am I the only one seeing it?

If I'm not... I think EVA-1 is a great girl who I'm just not in love with...
 
One would hope that that would be the case for a 3x difference in price. Otherwise, a lot of people are wasting money on the LT.

It's time for a blind shootout. C200, EVA-1, and .... GH2 :)
 
Paul F said:
One would hope that that would be the case for a 3x difference in price. Otherwise, a lot of people are wasting money on the LT.

It's time for a blind shootout. C200, EVA-1, and .... GH2 :)
Click to expand...


1. That may be the distinguishing intention of panasonic, but there is a big difference between feature parity and image rendition parity.
2. With image parity, the LT still has a very worthy laundry list of distinguishing features that make its extra cost well worth it
3. The official marketting implication is/was Varicam look, cheaper body, less features, sub 10k
4. 2x the price. 2.5x arguably ;)
5. There are other cameras sub 10k, or sub 5k, that maintain the image rendition characteristics and aesthetics of their bigger siblings
6. These sorts of remarks always seem to indicate a over-generalized "more money, more better" approach to images without the neccessary nuance. This isn't talking about more DR, more lowlight, less noise, better codecs and slow-motion, lens mounts, etc. etc. It's about the fundamental rendering aesthetic in which an image appears. To my eye, it seems to end at color and curve.

Which is all fine and well, just pointing out or asking - agreed?

EVA-1 looks good for what it is, but again, I think EVA-1 image may just be another great girl who I'm just not in love with... you know, kinda similar to her older sister who's taken, but totally different ;)
 
Agreed. I don't have the critical video eye that many DVXuser contributors have. I appreciate the intensity with which posters debate which camera/look is better. I often wonder how biased the critical eye is, knowing which camera is being used. That's why I suggested a blind shootout and sarcastically added the GH2 from the infamous Zacuto shootout, which showed that people were very much biased in their views once the cameras were revealed.
 
I hear ya! I can’t tell nearly as well if a camera is put on set and perfectly lit, graded, etc. it can become indistinguishable.

But I don’t do that kind of work, so at that point the way a camera handles natural light / nat-geo style b-roll and image rendition becomes a lot more important.

There are a lot of variables still - id love to try the Eva-1 myself and with some various lenses to see for myself!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top