EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

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Sttratos said:
In that case, wouldn't it have been much better, wiser and serve these goals better if the camera had only been announced once it was 100% finished and footage only released then? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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If they did that, then people would complain that they should have announced it early so that you could have considered it instead of buying some other camera that they are now stuck with.
 
Paul F said:
If they did that, then people would complain that they should have announced it early so that you could have considered it instead of buying some other camera that they are now stuck with.
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Strike a functional balance. Announce in April "we will introduce an S35-sensor camera for under $8,000 that is meant to deliver a Varicam-style look.". Release all the specifications on day 1. And say "footage will be available on Oct. 31."

That's it. No more. No teasing, no slow trickle. Just drop the bomb, tell the truth, and hit your deadlines. Panasonic can still do internal adjustments, beta tests, sample footage, more adjustments, but under NDA agreements and with no footage released until it is perfectly representative of what the finished product will do.

No "fake" footage, no prerelease footage, no promises of "it will get better", none of that. Ditch it all, hide all the warts, and just deliver a finished product accompanied by finished-quality footage (including raw clips available for download).

Keep all the good about the release cycle, but eliminate all the bad. Ditch all the release-cycle bitching. Pull your company up out of the muck and the noise.

That's my recommendation. I think that is the kind of release cycle that will win in today's zero-attention-span internet age. Take it for what it's worth.
 
"Have you actually used the AF100? It was a special kind of failure of a camera for it's generation..."

I wouldn't call it a failure....maybe in terms of numbers sold but for me its been a great camera.
I'll be shooting tomorrow on our AF101's, they're mainly event cameras these days but we've used them for all sorts of content over the years. I don't use them so much anymore but I've absolutely hammered the 3 I own over the last 6 or so years and never had any clients come back with image issues (corporate) and I love the Panasonic "look", hence my future investment in an EVA1
 
Barry_Green said:
Strike a functional balance. Announce in April "we will introduce an S35-sensor camera for under $8,000 that is meant to deliver a Varicam-style look.". Release all the specifications on day 1. And say "footage will be available on Oct. 31."

That's it. No more. No teasing, no slow trickle. Just drop the bomb, tell the truth, and hit your deadlines. Panasonic can still do internal adjustments, beta tests, sample footage, more adjustments, but under NDA agreements and with no footage released until it is perfectly representative of what the finished product will do.

No "fake" footage, no prerelease footage, no promises of "it will get better", none of that. Ditch it all, hide all the warts, and just deliver a finished product accompanied by finished-quality footage (including raw clips available for download).

Keep all the good about the release cycle, but eliminate all the bad. Ditch all the release-cycle bitching. Pull your company up out of the muck and the noise.

That's my recommendation. I think that is the kind of release cycle that will win in today's zero-attention-span internet age. Take it for what it's worth.
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Do you think that "in today's zero-attention-span internet age" announcing in April and then going silent for six months would really garner the necessary attention for the camera and give us a gauge of the market? Not all perfect but we do wish to keep the conversation going.
 
Uhhh...people would have forgotten about the camera without dialogue with Panasonic during the interim. Then come October, it’s released to zero fanfare and after a few review sites say, oh yeah, THIS camera came out.

You have to tease early so the masses get fidgety about buying something else just yet. Then you tease them with a bit more info, then tease with footage, etc...just as they’re doing now. It gets the dialogue going. People hate being teased, so it keeps the energy up. Nowadays peeps have these forums to ***** in because they want everything yesterday...and free. Then those same people jump onto the next bandwagon carrying the next new shiny thing they must own that’ll make them a better whatever. There is no one way to doit, there is no best way to do it. And if you fail doing it one way, you learn and do it another way. Whatever works. But at the end of the day, they’ll be selling these cameras a few years down the road, especially as they mature with firmware updates and actual owner/operator reviews.

I sit here thinking about the monetary investment, knowing I have a few thousand dollars in lenses not being used...trying to guage whether I get an EVA1 or an Ursa Mini Pro. And then spend the next 4 years with that investment. Once EVA1 starts shipping and people like me start using them and the real reviews start surfacing, that’s when things’ll get interesting. Until then, it’s just a bunch of forum gobbledygook talk.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Do you think that "in today's zero-attention-span internet age" announcing in April and then going silent for six months would really garner the necessary attention for the camera and give us a gauge of the market? Not all perfect but we do wish to keep the conversation going.
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I think that the drawn-out trickle launch worked just fine back in 2006. But that was 11 years ago and things are very, very different today.

I already said the preferred way would be to do it Apple-style: announce it when it's available for sale, with footage accompanying it.

I only modified the approach to accommodate the request that someone would want to know it's coming out so they don't buy a competitor's product and have regrets.

If you want the tease, reduce it to a couple weeks. Make the big announcement early so your big corporate clients can get their budgets in line. Then, two weeks prior to release, tease the actual shape under the veil, along with a hard, firm delivery date. Engage and tease all you want, but announce final.details, price, and availability all at once in a big orchestrated event.

Learn from Apple. That's how they do it, and it certainly seems to work.
 
Barry_Green said:
I think that the drawn-out trickle launch worked just fine back in 2006. But that was 11 years ago and things are very, very different today.

I already said the preferred way would be to do it Apple-style: announce it when it's available for sale, with footage accompanying it.

I only modified the approach to accommodate the request that someone would want to know it's coming out so they don't buy a competitor's product and have regrets.

If you want the tease, reduce it to a couple weeks. Make the big announcement early so your big corporate clients can get their budgets in line. Then, two weeks prior to release, tease the actual shape under the veil, along with a hard, firm delivery date. Engage and tease all you want, but announce final.details, price, and availability all at once in a big orchestrated event.

Learn from Apple. That's how they do it, and it certainly seems to work.
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This sounds like a great idea! Really a bulletproof marketing plan. I can't wait until you release your first camera!

EDIT: Realized the above could come across as overtly snarky. Not intended to be too biting. Just a bit of humor. :happy:
 
The marketing techniques need to match the product and market. Phones have quite a different customer base that knows that there will be a new iPhone every x months. There is no need to guess if that will happen and if they should wait and see. There is no point in teasing an iPhone. It has a loyal base that won't even consider Android phones. Those that do switch between Android and Apple also know the phone release cycles. They know what Samsung is going to do. Teasing in this market will not change anything about the product and it will not make people wait as they know that a new Samsung or Apple phone is due. I suppose that is true to certain extent with camera fanboys.

The GHx photography camera releases are somewhat predictable and regular. But video/cinema camera product lines and their releases are unpredictable. There was an AF-100 experiment, then the DVX-200 came along and then the UX series. The EVA-1 came out of nowhere. The other video camera companies also have random releases. So teases can definitely make some buyers wait and see. I don't think early announcements are of significant use to tweak the product. The major features are cast in stone. The only things that may change are menus and the like.

Red just announced a new sensor months in advance of its release. They also pre-sold a phone without telling anyone what it does. So there is a mindset in this market to pre-announce. Does it work? Only they know.

I don't see any comparison whatsoever between these markets and how one should release a product.
 
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Hey, y'all do it however you want. I have been watching the market closely for the last, what, 14 years now. I remember vividly the launches of 2003 and 2005. And I have watched the recent releases. And while the launch pattern really hasn't changed much at all, the audience reception has changed dramatically. The level of skepticism and negativity and bitchiness is way off the charts, as is the nitpicking. Seems the longer people have to think about something, the pickier they get. Mitch is promoting a VariCam type of look from this thing, and still there is griping -- it's like the audience is the toughest crowd ever now.

So I am just suggesting that what worked well 11 years ago, doesn't necessarily work well now. I fully expect this EVA1 will be a tremendous performer and an excellent value proposition, and I think if they had just brought it to market quietly it would have exploded on the scene and been a smash. Whereas with the current drawn-out launch system, I am seeing too many of the same predictable negative complaints, the same ones that followed their previous cameras that followed this launch pattern, and too much griping, and it all seems just so... Avoidable.

Seems like they should be able to capture the good and leapfrog the bad.

But, as said before, they're a multibillion dollar conglomerate, and I am not. I am sure they know their market and will do just fine.
 
I think you are spot on Barry. Things move to fast today so there's just no room to drag releases or tease forever. There's just no patience for that these days. If the objective with drawn out releases is to block buyers mind from buying from the competition with things to come, I think people will get bored and move on. Even thou the potential buyers for this camera are pros.
 
Barry_Green said:
I think that the drawn-out trickle launch worked just fine back in 2006. But that was 11 years ago and things are very, very different today.

I already said the preferred way would be to do it Apple-style: announce it when it's available for sale, with footage accompanying it.

I only modified the approach to accommodate the request that someone would want to know it's coming out so they don't buy a competitor's product and have regrets.

If you want the tease, reduce it to a couple weeks. Make the big announcement early so your big corporate clients can get their budgets in line. Then, two weeks prior to release, tease the actual shape under the veil, along with a hard, firm delivery date. Engage and tease all you want, but announce final.details, price, and availability all at once in a big orchestrated event.

Learn from Apple. That's how they do it, and it certainly seems to work.
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Blackmagic did this with the Ursa Mini Pro, I wonder how well it worked out? B&H has it listed as a top seller, but nearly all of BM cameras get ranked as a top seller.

Apple only does this when the product is expected. Everyone expects a new iPhone during "iPhone season". Apple has basically made it a Holiday. They don't have to tease their launch because everyone is already anticipating it moments after the previous launch. This year they announced the iPhone X months before the pre-order, and it seems the first shipment might not be until 2018 instead of November. Not to mention that the specs and design of the iPhone X leaked out (most likely on purpose) half a year before announcement.
 
Barry_Green said:
I think that the drawn-out trickle launch worked just fine back in 2006. But that was 11 years ago and things are very, very different today.

I already said the preferred way would be to do it Apple-style: announce it when it's available for sale, with footage accompanying it.

I only modified the approach to accommodate the request that someone would want to know it's coming out so they don't buy a competitor's product and have regrets.

If you want the tease, reduce it to a couple weeks. Make the big announcement early so your big corporate clients can get their budgets in line. Then, two weeks prior to release, tease the actual shape under the veil, along with a hard, firm delivery date. Engage and tease all you want, but announce final.details, price, and availability all at once in a big orchestrated event.

Learn from Apple. That's how they do it, and it certainly seems to work.
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Agree to disagree. Ours is a very different market from that of Apple's wares.
 
I'm all for lively discussion and we do pay attention, but I'll just point out that the reason Panasonic does an extended marketing campaign is not for you. You people are both professionals and enthusiasts. You're curious and looking for this sort of information t any time and when it is unveiled you're the first to investigate and discuss. So we know you will take a look right from the start. Panasonic needs to get the word out to all the casual audiences who do not pay such close attention. Make enough noise and eventually they might hear you. Generate some buzz and eventually it may catch their interest enough to look. For some it's about repeating a message until it gets through for others it's about expanding upon the message until it generates interest.

Barry, your idea works for the group on places such as DVXuser. Not so sure about the rest of the market.
 
First just one thing out of the way:

Mitch Gross said:
I'm not insulted and I didn't mean to insult anyone.
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You dish it out but can also take it. Respect. Way too many thin skinned people around these parts.

Mitch Gross said:
I'll try to make my point again clearly.

The EVA1 can be used right out of the box and deliver gorgeous images. It's an exceptionally easy camera to use, and there's even a HOME screen that's completely separate from the menu system which will allow the DP to view and adjust standard settings. Use the camera this way and enjoy it for the beauty it can deliver. End.

OR

If you want or need to , take a look at the options available in the menu system. They are not complicated to navigate and there are some interesting features available to you. You don't have to, but you might discover something that is more to your personal taste. Or maybe you'll find an interesting feature to keep in the back of your mind should you ever run into a particular situation. Your choice.

A properly-designed car's automatic transmission will generally deliver the greatest balance of efficiency and power. Some drivers are all about the automatic transmission so that they can concentrate on other things. Other drivers prefer a manual transmission so that they can have a more direct control and manipulate the engine the way they personally prefer. The nice thing about a camera like EVA1 is that you can switch between automatic and manual transmission any time you wish. But if you don't know how to drive stick you'll struggle with it, so it's a good idea to practice a bit first to see what it can do for you. End metaphor.
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The thing is when you speak now it's like Panasonic is speaking. So what you say carries a different weight, in both directions. When you say the EVA1 looks great, the EVA1 is easy to get a good result from , the EVA1 can be used right out of the box and deliver gorgeous images etc it doesn't really carry any weight. Sorry. You are selling it. What else are you going to say? Everybody is thankful for you being here and giving specs and other facts. But as far as your opinion about the image, you should not be surprised or take it personally (not saying you do) if people don't take it as gospel. Especially if the images so far don't really point that way. If it looks great or is easy to get great images from is not for Panasonic or you to say. It's for the public. Not even the people who buy it. But the general camera crowd. The crowd will ultimately decide if all that is true. If it is then a consensus will be formed that it looks great and is easy to get great results from. This is how it works in the end.

Every camera has a default setting. The question is does it look great just that way? This is a question you or Panasonic can't answer. Like I said it's not even a question most owners can answer in an honest way. It's a question the general camera crowd will answer once the camera is out. Most buyers are in a honey moon period when they buy a new camera and will only admit to the camera's faults when they move on to their next camera. If you have been around in this business long enough you have seen it happening over and over. But images don't lie. Owners can say all they want the camera looks great in their opinion. But if clip after clip online from the camera looks like video, cheap, bad skins etc this is the camera. Not what the manufacturer or the fans say.

I bought a FS7 and from the beginning I was criticizing it. I got down voted a lot on the Sony forum for it. Few other FS7 owners would come out and say it. Most had only praise. But I never felt like treating my camera like a darling just because I owned one. I pointed all the faults as I saw. Because how good was it to play blind and look to the other side pretending the camera was all roses when all the FS7 clips online told another story? I never saw a single FS7 clip that made me think the camera looked fantastic or even great. I never shot anything on the FS7 which I thought looked fantastic or even great. It always left something to be desired. It needed a lot of massaging just to start looking good. That is not an easy to use camera. It doesn't matter how many menu options there were. They could never help me and I honestly never seen them helping anybody. So I was never happy with it. Too much work for nothing. This all went away when I sold the FS7 and moved on to my next camera. I was finally happy.

So nobody can say now how the EVA1 will be. Saying it is like a Varicam is not saying much. First for that to be any compliment one has to actually like the Varicam. Second it's so subjective that it's a worthless statement.

Besides all that the point was not really about the EVA1 but about cameras in general. To me it was. I know this is an EVA1 thread. But I was talking about cameras in general. That cameras should be easy to get great results from. In a perfect world you would never need to touch menus apart from the obvious stuff like WB, frame rate etc. If you want to style the image it's different. But you should not have to mess with menus just to get a great image out of it. This is with any camera. I was not questioning the EVA1. Because nobody can say anything yet. Not Panasonic, not you not anybody yet. Only once the camera is out will the camera crowd speak the verdict. Then we will all know.

Anybody who doesn't want an easy to use camera must not use cameras. :)
 
Sttratos said:
First just one thing out of the way:



You dish it out but can also take it. Respect. Way too many thin skinned people around these parts.



The thing is when you speak now it's like Panasonic is speaking. So what you say carries a different weight, in both directions. When you say the EVA1 looks great, the EVA1 is easy to get a good result from , the EVA1 can be used right out of the box and deliver gorgeous images etc it doesn't really carry any weight. Sorry. You are selling it. What else are you going to say? Everybody is thankful for you being here and giving specs and other facts. But as far as your opinion about the image, you should not be surprised or take it personally (not saying you do) if people don't take it as gospel. Especially if the images so far don't really point that way. If it looks great or is easy to get great images from is not for Panasonic or you to say. It's for the public. Not even the people who buy it. But the general camera crowd. The crowd will ultimately decide if all that is true. If it is then a consensus will be formed that it looks great and is easy to get great results from. This is how it works in the end.

Every camera has a default setting. The question is does it look great just that way? This is a question you or Panasonic can't answer. Like I said it's not even a question most owners can answer in an honest way. It's a question the general camera crowd will answer once the camera is out. Most buyers are in a honey moon period when they buy a new camera and will only admit to the camera's faults when they move on to their next camera. If you have been around in this business long enough you have seen it happening over and over. But images don't lie. Owners can say all they want the camera looks great in their opinion. But if clip after clip online from the camera looks like video, cheap, bad skins etc this is the camera. Not what the manufacturer or the fans say.

I bought a FS7 and from the beginning I was criticizing it. I got down voted a lot on the Sony forum for it. Few other FS7 owners would come out and say it. Most had only praise. But I never felt like treating my camera like a darling just because I owned one. I pointed all the faults as I saw. Because how good was it to play blind and look to the other side pretending the camera was all roses when all the FS7 clips online told another story? I never saw a single FS7 clip that made me think the camera looked fantastic or even great. I never shot anything on the FS7 which I thought looked fantastic or even great. It always left something to be desired. It needed a lot of massaging just to start looking good. That is not an easy to use camera. It doesn't matter how many menu options there were. They could never help me and I honestly never seen them helping anybody. So I was never happy with it. Too much work for nothing. This all went away when I sold the FS7 and moved on to my next camera. I was finally happy.

So nobody can say now how the EVA1 will be. Saying it is like a Varicam is not saying much. First for that to be any compliment one has to actually like the Varicam. Second it's so subjective that it's a worthless statement.

Besides all that the point was not really about the EVA1 but about cameras in general. To me it was. I know this is an EVA1 thread. But I was talking about cameras in general. That cameras should be easy to get great results from. In a perfect world you would never need to touch menus apart from the obvious stuff like WB, frame rate etc. If you want to style the image it's different. But you should not have to mess with menus just to get a great image out of it. This is with any camera. I was not questioning the EVA1. Because nobody can say anything yet. Not Panasonic, not you not anybody yet. Only once the camera is out will the camera crowd speak the verdict. Then we will all know.

Anybody who doesn't want an easy to use camera must not use cameras. :)
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That's quite the insulting word salad just to say it's all subjective.
 
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