EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dom.G said:
In a perfect world Pana would have just slapped an extra cfast slot on the thing and let people have their cake and eat it too. Internal raw and 800mpbs 4k60 10bit to cfast, with wide open cfast slot with no latch like on the ursa so people working on a budget can just spend 200 bucks on an ssd enclosure and a short breakout cable and have real cheap recodring media, making it pretty much the perfect indie camera. That would most likely require more processing power and extra components, inscreasing the price of the camera, so I guess compromises have to be made somewhere.
Click to expand...

It would also mean more power draw, which would necessitate moving to larger 12v batteries such as used on the URSA Mini. That means more size, weight and cost for the end user. In fact the BMD camera is more than twice the weight of the EVA1.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Go buy a FS7 then if 10bit 4k 60p is such an important thing for you. We don't need to turn this into a "well this camera does it so why not" type of discussion now do we?
Click to expand...

Yes, heaven forbid we discuss how the EVA-1 compares to its most direct competition...

I don't think people who post concerns or disappointments are trying to be cynical negative nancys. I know I am not. We have an active Panasonic rep right here on the board reading everything. The product is still in development and not yet finalized. If people in the community feel a certain way or express opinions, whether you or even Panny considers them valid or not, at least Panasonic can hear the voices from their most dedicated and loyal fan base now. Better here, pre-launch, when things can possibly be adjusted, than post launch in reviews. On launch people are going to say what they feel and think either way, at least now it's not set in stone.

I am glad 4k60p 10-bit doesn't matter to you - I'm envious, actually, because I really dig this camera overall. But for me, and apparently judging from the responses and upvotes to these comments, it matters to many of us. No one is trying to pour ice on things, I think anyone spending their valuable time to contribute here is doing so because Panasonic is listening and we WANT to love this camera.

I hope it sells like hotcakes whether I love it or not.

But I also hope Mitch relays concerns on the forum to the team because the conversations here are a great sneak peak into how people and reviewers may react in September. I won't belabor the point, but I won't apologize for throwing in my voice. I hope the team can take the voices to heart and consider if possible concessions can be made here, even if it means a 4K 60p 10 bit burst mode, or a 2.7K 60p 10-bit mode, an additional cost unlock code for 4K 60p 10 bit internal, or an upgraded CPU with slightly lower margins. Maybe none of those will work out, but at least the voices of those feel the same were heard.
 
Last edited:
We are listening. However...

At this point the camera is pretty much set in stone. All of these concerns have been brought up previously and considered. There are various technical reasons why certain choices are made, many of which I have already explained. Every design choice is scrutinized and debated. In the end decisions have been made after careful consideration and opinions gathered from various groups, including end users. There will always be choices & compromises. We all want 10 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket.

I will relay concerns. Not just from here but from many places.
 
Thanks Mitch! Always good to hear, and I of course understand how unchangeable things can be at this point and why certain compromises must be made. Reassuring to know the input is received and considered. Fingers crossed for some sort of creative solution or meet halfway concession, even if in a later firmware update. Your responses and engagement here are much appreciated!
 
filmguy123 said:
Yes, heaven forbid we discuss how the EVA-1 compares to its most direct competition...

I don't think people who post concerns or disappointments are trying to be cynical negative nancys. I know I am not. We have an active Panasonic rep right here on the board reading everything. The product is still in development and not yet finalized. If people in the community feel a certain way or express opinions, whether you or even Panny considers them valid or not, at least Panasonic can hear the voices from their most dedicated and loyal fan base now. Better here, pre-launch, when things can possibly be adjusted, than post launch in reviews. On launch people are going to say what they feel and think either way, at least now it's not set in stone.

I am glad 4k60p 10-bit doesn't matter to you - I'm envious, actually, because I really dig this camera overall. But for me, and apparently judging from the responses and upvotes to these comments, it matters to many of us. No one is trying to pour ice on things, I think anyone spending their valuable time to contribute here is doing so because Panasonic is listening and we WANT to love this camera.

I hope it sells like hotcakes whether I love it or not.

But I also hope Mitch relays concerns on the forum to the team because the conversations here are a great sneak peak into how people and reviewers may react in September. I won't belabor the point, but I won't apologize for throwing in my voice. I hope the team can take the voices to heart and consider if possible concessions can be made here, even if it means a 4K 60p 10 bit burst mode, or a 2.7K 60p 10-bit mode, an additional cost unlock code for 4K 60p 10 bit internal, or an upgraded CPU with slightly lower margins. Maybe none of those will work out, but at least the voices of those feel the same were heard.
Click to expand...

Hey nothing wrong with discussing the camera. Thats why I'm here as well. I just know not much can be done at this point and I'm sure Panasonic is doing everything they can to add as much as possible to the camera.

My main point was that 4k 60p is kind of a new frontier and a lot of cameras have some serious compromises right now. Same with just about everybody and slow motion. Each manufacturer comes up with their way of tackling pushing the limit of technology. Even the Varicam has a certain level of compromise when it comes to 4k 60k. It can only use the AVC-Intra LT codec which has half the data rate and slightly lower resolution. This is on the much more expensive Varicam LT. 4k 60p is fairly new and yes a few cameras have managed it like the f7s which is really impressive. Then again the EVA has some things the f7s doesn't have. Everybody picks different tradeoffs.

It is absolutely possible for a camera to be able to process 4k 60p internally from the DSP and allow it to pump out via HDMI and SDI but not be able to get the same results when encoding to an internal format. Two different processes and encoding the recording format is different than creating the de-bayered image block signal. This is why cameras like the GH4 could do 10bit external but not internal and the GH5 can do 4k 60p 10bit external but not internal. So much of the processor is used to make that uncompressed signal in the DSP that there is only so much left for encoding the file. HDMI doesn't need a file. Its just a dump of the image block signal.

10bit encoding does take a lot more processing because you are dealing with 4x the amount of samples. Thats a lot more data and a lot more work for the processors to chug though to turn into an H264 file of decent quality. AVC-Intra also works a bit harder then your normal everyday H264 since it is working harder to make the video look better and it uses a higher profile in H264. AVCHD could be an option but that takes more CPU power to encode because of the motion vector prediction and 10bit is still 4x the amount of color data to handle.

Not sure how Sony handled it. URSA Pro deals with it because it is raw or ProRes. ProRes is much faster and less CPU intensive to encode so there is a speed advantage there. You are stuck with much larger files however so again tradeoffs. f7s is impressive that it can do 4k 60p but it also isn't over sampling the sensor for finer detail. that over sampling takes a massive amount of processing. I assume EVA is using a similar process as the GH5 (processing seems very related between both) where it uses 9 surrounding pixels to create an averaged super pixel as part of the down conversion. Its kind of like a bi-cubic scaling which is really good for in camera processing. That really good scaling that you can normally only get in post takes a lot of processing power.

The important thing on the EVA is at least you have options for 4k 60p 10bit. You can use a very affordable recorder for ProRes external. I agree not optimal for those who don't want to lug around a recorder but it is an option. 8bit 4k 60p is not a horrible option either. Its very clean and detailed just like the other 4k 10bit modes. It just has less color depth for difficult situations. You can do v-log with 8bit and while it may sometimes have banding in some shots other shots can look just as good as a 10bit version. You just have to be ab it more careful with v-log 8bit and it can break easier. Doesn't mean it will but it can. 10bit is really about having the extra overhead to cover complex situations.

Over sampling is the future of 4k cameras. URSA does it with 4.6k and RED does it with 5k and higher cameras. Panasonic will have stunning detail and color accuracy from a bayer sensor when recording 4k and it has the option of being an almost 6k camera which is insanely impressive. So yeah tradeoffs for different manufacturers.
 
Last edited:
Sttratos said:
But it's indeed not a Varicam, right? Or is Panasonic thinking of giving it the Varicam label now?
Click to expand...

Concerns have been heard. AFAIK its not a Varicam. My thinking is along the lines of: It has dual ISO and seems to be pushing toward matching the Varicams image wise. No? Im happy for it to be where the users want it.
 
I dont see anythig wrong with the eva-1. If it outputs 422 10bit 60 like gh5, then its no issue. Only thing i would like as a bonus is an improved AF like canon's.
 
dcloud said:
I dont see anythig wrong with the eva-1. If it outputs 422 10bit 60 like gh5, then its no issue. Only thing i would like as a bonus is an improved AF like canon's.
Click to expand...

I agree. From a professional stand point, I think cameras are quite nice. I felt the same way before HD, and the whole SDX900 and varicam era right before HD.

But there is still a niche for the enthusiast. Looking forward to that time. the 1DC was an amazing tease to that.
 
Last edited:
This camera would be a bigger hit if its in the 5-6k range. Based on old panasonic cameras, im hopeful the price is way below their competitors
 
Thomas Smet said:
Go buy a FS7 then if 10bit 4k 60p is such an important thing for you. We don't need to turn this into a "well this camera does it so why not" type of discussion now do we? None of us here can ever dream to understand what goes on inside of a camera to make it work the way it does.

While the Varicam LT can record 4k 60p it also does so to the AVC-Intra LT codec. I can't seem to find any information on what this codec actually is compared to the regular AVC-Intra codec. I don't know if LT drops to 8bit or not but it is clearly some form of reduced AVC-Intra to make 4k 60p recording work. Maybe somebody can chime in with some details on what AVC-Intra LT actually is since the Panasonic website only mentions it in terms of NLE support.
Click to expand...

I was told by someone from Panasonic that the AVC-Intra LT does not debayer all the info (think it leaves out the green) and this helps the compression. Then its added back/debayers during playback. This is why they can't call it 422 because technically it is not when compressed, but it is on playback. I'm pretty sure its 10bit but may have mis-remembered all of this!
 
I've never owned a Canon or Canon-mount lenses, although I've used some on shoots.

I understand this is a EF mount, but I've also seen lenses with an EF-S mount. Will these fit the EVA?
Are there other Canon mounts that will fit this camera?
 
vanvideo said:
I've never owned a Canon or Canon-mount lenses, although I've used some on shoots.

I understand this is a EF mount, but I've also seen lenses with an EF-S mount. Will these fit the EVA?
Are there other Canon mounts that will fit this camera?
Click to expand...

Any EF or EF-S lens will fit. EF is FF, EF-S is APS-C (S35mm). The older Canon FD mount lenses will not fit without an adapter.
 
Whoa! According to Rule, who posed my question for me, EVA1 will have 4K60 10 bit 422. There easily could have been something lost in translation there especially since Mitch has implied that we should check our expectations in this regard, but it gives me hope!Screen Shot 2017-06-14 at 10.55.50 AM.jpg
 
theaveragedave said:
Whoa! According to Rule, who posed my question for me, EVA1 will have 4K60 10 bit 422. There easily could have been something lost in translation there especially since Mitch has implied that we should check our expectations in this regard, but it gives me hope!View attachment 124374
Click to expand...

I believe it will do that via the HDMI/SDI output but not when recording internally. Still too much unknown information and unless it comes directly from Panasonic/Mitch I would not consider it a fact.
 
For any of you Varicam LT users out there, in light of the potential focus assist features the EVA1 may inherit, can you speak to how effective the assist functions listed here are?

http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/varicam/lt/html_manual/chapter07_03_05.htm

I'm most interested in the "enlarge" function, but the "focus squares" function could be helpful as well. Does the "enlarge" function let you move the enlarged image center around in case your focus point isn't dead center of the frame? I move my magnify center around on my C100 all the time and I'm kind of stuck on that functionality now.
 
theaveragedave said:
I'm most interested in the "enlarge" function, but the "focus squares" function could be helpful as well. Does the "enlarge" function let you move the enlarged image center around in case your focus point isn't dead center of the frame? I move my magnify center around on my C100 all the time and I'm kind of stuck on that functionality now.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it doesn't, but I wish it could be set to do so. The LT only has an iris control wheel on the handgrip but I wish that it could be used to at least move the square left or right while in magnification mode.
The focus squares are great though, much better than previous experiences with regular focus assist IMO (called focus in colour in the manual).
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top