EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

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according to the interviews on cinema5d they are also thinking about cropped 4k raw output.

as well as some (exchangeable ?) pl-mount option "without an adaper" might still be in the cards.

for me the c200 is still a hot gontender especially for it's "below 8000" price. :-)

for longer takes/event shooting/conferences, i'm o.k with 150mbit/ 8bit 4:2:0 (or whatever else they plan to deliver in that q1/18 firmware-update) - for more "polished" stuff that 16min=128gb raw is big but workable. only the supposedly 8bit 4k sdi-out bugs me, so you can't even use an external recorder for 10bit 422.

after that announcement i'm very curious about any extra features, panasonic might still have up it's sleeve.
 
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James0b57 said:
The biggest misconception of raw, is that it is "throwing nothing away". Raw can be very compressed. "raw" does not imply "uncompressed". But if you mean native resolution, then yes, it should be at the native resolution assuming there is not cropping happening.
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Thanks for the answer James. Yes I ment resolution, and information retained that allow for things raw is normally associated with, such as the ability to adjust white balance and better highlight recovery etc, which might be lost in the process of oversampling to a lower resolution.

I think we'll see alot more discussion on the benefits of shooting raw in the near future, with technology quickly catching up to make raw releatively painless to shoot and edit.
There's some very beefy video cards and processors coming up in the next few years, ssd tech is rapidly improving with 3dNAND and drives will get bigger and cheaper pretty quick when it really ramps up, and I'm sure we'll see cameras or external recorders eventually use something like NVMe drives, hell I'd love to see one today, a Samsung 960 evo is $450 for 1TB and can do 1200MB/s sustained write, and is the size of a stick of gum.

Maybe sometime in the near future, the only argument will be compressed vs uncompressed raw, and using prores and other more lossy compression for anything other than immediate turnaround jobs will seem as silly as putting a 4:2:0 8bit mp4 codec in a $7500 camera today.
 
Thomas Smet said:
You can't scale raw. Once you do it is no longer raw because it is processed. If a camera pumps out raw it does so with the full sensor or cropped. No realistic way to scale raw because that completely goes against the nature of what raw is. You can't have a bayer pattern that can be de-bayered if the image is scaled down You would end up with the worlds most messed up color mush and no longer have any form of a bayer pattern left. A bayer pattern depends on having the exact RGB layout and scaling would completely destroy that. It is physically impossible to scale raw and keep it raw.
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Check out what the Blackmagic URSA Mini/UMP 4.6K does.
 
Zak Forsman said:
Some new details on the EVA1 from an interview on Cinema5D. Most notable to me are that 4k 60p will be 8-bit (but I suppose that's to be expected when capturing to an SD card). And HFR 2K will be windowed.

https://www.cinema5d.com/panasonic-...ter-nela-pertl-luc-bara-on-the-go-episode-52/



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Please know that this is not the complete story, as Nela & Luc only had a short time to go over many aspects of the camera. For instance not all high frame rate will be windowed. We will have complete, detailed specs soon.
 
filmguy123 said:
Ouch. Those were two of my "devil is in the details" possible pitfalls and both really hinder the draw of the camera for me. Not trying to be a debbie downer, but cropping in for slow mo is a real workflow issue especially if you shoot with primes (I do) and want to swap between slow motion and standard quickly. No 10-bit 422 in 4K 60p internally gives no edge over the GH5 codec wise, and means no 4K slow motion without an external recorder (unless you are willing to shoot vlog in 8-bit 420, no thanks; and without vlog, you lose DR and grading flexibility).
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I hope Panasonic can release a list of recording signal and supported resolutions. I know its still too early but it's disheartening to hear the 8 bit part. If it is then C200 is not the only 2017 camera with 8 bit codec -_-
 
Retrospective said:
I hope Panasonic can release a list of recording signal and supported resolutions. I know its still too early but it's disheartening to hear the 8 bit part. If it is then C200 is not the only 2017 camera with 8 bit codec -_-
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There will be a complete breakdown as we get closer to release.
 
filmguy123 said:
Ouch. Those were two of my "devil is in the details" possible pitfalls and both really hinder the draw of the camera for me. Not trying to be a debbie downer, but cropping in for slow mo is a real workflow issue especially if you shoot with primes (I do) and want to swap between slow motion and standard quickly. No 10-bit 422 in 4K 60p internally gives no edge over the GH5 codec wise, and means no 4K slow motion without an external recorder (unless you are willing to shoot vlog in 8-bit 420, no thanks; and without vlog, you lose DR and grading flexibility).
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damn. kinda makes all the advertising up till now a little misleading. you can have 10 bit 422 4k internally, and you can have 60p internally, but not both at the same time? internal slow mo seems kinda crippled, so i guess not giving it the varicam name makes sense. well, i guess it will record awesome footage internally in 24 and 30p..
 
NorBro said:
Check out what the Blackmagic URSA Mini/UMP 4.6K does.
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Yeah with ProRes thats pretty neat. I'm talking about raw.

Typically the 2k raw modes on the URSA are windowed. Does the URSA Pro actually have a full sensor 2k raw scaled mode or are you referring to ProRes which can be scaled to anything?
 
Dom.G said:
Thanks for the answer James. Yes I ment resolution, and information retained that allow for things raw is normally associated with, such as the ability to adjust white balance and better highlight recovery etc, which might be lost in the process of oversampling to a lower resolution.
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The additional complication with resolution, is that a sensor's native resolution is different from the interpolated de-bayred final image. So, saying a sensor is 5.7K is relatively meaningless without additional explanation.
 
NorBro said:
And yes, windowed, obviously, but looks great.
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Absolutely looks great. My original point was that it is typically not possible to scale raw. Raw is raw and more of a data file with numbers then an actual image. There might be some odd way to merge number values together to get an average if you do a perfect 1/4 scale but I'm not even sure that would be practical for video which has to happen 30-60 times per second.
 
Sorry, I guess you were stating such an obvious fact that I misunderstand.

It's like telling me the power button turns on the camera, ha.

But regardless, it's good to note that more cameras may offer windowed RAW options in the future.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Please know that this is not the complete story ... We will have complete, detailed specs soon.
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Thanks Mitch, always good to hear from you and thankful to have an active Panasonic rep here! I know you may not be able to answer this question but I'll pose it here anywhere, even if ends up a rhetorical question until complete specs are released. One thing I have a hard time reconciling in light of news that 4K 60p internal will be limited to 8-bit is this comment:

Mitch Gross said:
We are being VERY aggressive with the functionality we are squeezing into EVA1, and the only limitations are what will fit. Those limitations came by keeping down the cost, the weight, the power draw, and the size of the camera. We shoved in and and are trying to suck out as much as possible given those parameters. We are not "hobbling" EVA1 at all.
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I won't pretend to be an engineer, though I am a bit of a tech-obsessed nerd, so do forgive me if I am speaking over my paygrade. But both the GH5 and EVA-1 have shown the hardware capability to deliver 400mbps throughput in an All-I codec which shows that the data throughput is there for those bitrates. We also know the processing power is there for 4K 60p on a LongGOP format. So the CPU can handle 4K 60p LongGOP encoding, and the data throughput can handle 400mbps.

Based on everything i know regarding the relationship between CPU processing and data throughput, I cannot see any reason why given these specs 4K 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 at a LongGOP 200-400 mbps bitrate is not entirely possible with the given hardware? Limiting it to 8-bit would seem to counter your statement that the camera is not being hobbled in anyway?

Sensor size not withstanding, it would be a major disappoint to see a camera costing nearly 4x as much as the GH5 not offer any edge in codec. It's also disappointing from a pure functionality standpoint as one of the key advantages that defines the EVA-1 is "lightweight, low-cost internal media".

I do not think I would be alone in saying that I would pay extra for a vlog-L style unlock to activate 4K 60p 10b 4:2:2 Internal to SD cards over paying for a bulky external recorder. It's not about the $$ in this case, for many of us it's about the functionality. Adding on a mandatory external recorder for any 4K slow motion modes worth shooting at a professional level negates the entire selling point of a lightweight 2lbs camera. Given how prominent slow motion is in today's work, please, please, please reconsider 4K 60p being limited to 8-bit. Even if I'm talking out of my arse regarding technical capabilities and misunderstanding what is possible, I'm hardpressed to believe that this couldn't be at least managed via a burst mode like the FS700 used to offer. The lack of this is a blackmark on an otherwise (potentially) stellar package.

Regarding the windowed 2K slow motion modes, I hope to see 180fps without crop, but at least 120fps as a minimum. I can understand needing to crop to reach 240fps which is a very impressive framerate, but not at framerates that have become standard even at the lower end.

As a Panasonic product lover and faithful, PLEASE release something that will stand up to what the competition is going to be dropping in the following year. Banking on Dual ISO and Varicam color science won't be enough for most.
 
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filmguy123 said:
Thanks Mitch, always good to hear from you and thankful to have an active Panasonic rep here! I know you may not be able to answer this question but I'll pose it here anywhere, even if ends up a rhetorical question until complete specs are released. One thing I have a hard time reconciling in light of news that 4K 60p internal will be limited to 8-bit is this comment:



I won't pretend to be an engineer, though I am a bit of a tech-obsessed nerd, so do forgive me if I am speaking over my paygrade. But both the GH5 and EVA-1 have shown the hardware capability to deliver 400mbps throughput in an All-I codec which shows that the data throughput is there for those bitrates. We also know the processing power is there for 4K 60p on a LongGOP format. So the CPU can handle 4K 60p LongGOP encoding, and the data throughput can handle 400mbps.

Based on everything i know regarding the relationship between CPU processing and data throughput, I cannot see any reason why given these specs 4K 60p 10-bit 4:2:2 at a LongGOP 200-400 mbps bitrate is not entirely possible with the given hardware? Limiting it to 8-bit would seem to counter your statement that the camera is not being hobbled in anyway?

Sensor size not withstanding, it would be a major disappoint to see a camera costing nearly 4x as much as the GH5 not offer any edge in codec. It's also disappointing from a pure functionality standpoint as one of the key advantages that defines the EVA-1 is "lightweight, low-cost internal media".

I do not think I would be alone in saying that I would pay extra for a vlog-L style unlock to activate 4K 60p 10b 4:2:2 Internal to SD cards over paying for a bulky external recorder. It's not about the $$ in this case, for many of us it's about the functionality. Adding on a mandatory external recorder for any 4K slow motion modes worth shooting at a professional level negates the entire selling point of a lightweight 2lbs camera. Given how prominent slow motion is in today's work, please, please, please reconsider 4K 60p being limited to 8-bit. Even if I'm talking out of my arse regarding technical capabilities and misunderstanding what is possible, I'm hardpressed to believe that this couldn't be at least managed via a burst mode like the FS700 used to offer. The lack of this is a blackmark on an otherwise (potentially) stellar package.

Regarding the windowed 2K slow motion modes, I hope to see 180fps without crop, but at least 120fps as a minimum. I can understand needing to crop to reach 240fps which is a very impressive framerate, but not at framerates that have become standard even at the lower end.

As a Panasonic product lover and faithful, PLEASE release something that will stand up to what the competition is going to be dropping in the following year. Banking on Dual ISO and Varicam color science won't be enough for most.
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This is not about the speed of the media or the ability of a codec. It is about the power of the main processing chip. It's all a story of data cycles and just how much data can get pushed through each stage in a given time. Like I said, we are not hobbling. The processor will be utilized to its fullest capabilities.
 
Mitch Gross said:
This is not about the speed of the media or the ability of a codec. It is about the power of the main processing chip. It's all a story of data cycles and just how much data can get pushed through each stage in a given time. Like I said, we are not hobbling. The processor will be utilized to its fullest capabilities.
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+1
 
Mitch Gross said:
Yes, the EVA1 will have 5.7K RAW output. Reminder, this output will come in a firmware update some months after the initial camera release.
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Thank you.

5.7K output. To have nearly 6K debayred color resolution, the sensor must have some crazy native pixel count!

This is an extremely cheap 6K option.
 
James0b57 said:
Thank you.

5.7K output. To have nearly 6K debayred color resolution, the sensor must have some crazy native pixel count!

This is an extremely cheap 6K option.
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...with Varicam colorimetry, V-log, and V-gamut, in DCI 4K, Super 35, 10-bit 4:2:2 at 400Mbps, internal to SD cards! Crazy.

And this was just a preview. We still don't know what else is in store (or not) when the official specs are released later this year.
 
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