Panasonic AF-100 being called the "DSLR killer". Any thoughts?

[Ben_B]

By the way Ben, I really liked your iKan submission. The difference between the first and second part was awesome.

What was the first horrible part shot on? The aliasing on the blinds is HORRIBLE x 100

Both parts were shot on HVX-200, second part was with Letus extreme 35mm adaptor and Nikkor glass (yes, the DP really can run like that with a 20 pound rig,) 1080/24p, first part was stock lens, I think we talked about doing 480p but just shot it normally...I think the aliasing is actually present in both and is a result of the web compression. I didn't do the final compression and uploading and I don't think I would have compressed it quite so much. Glad you liked it.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Both parts were shot on HVX-200, second part was with Letus extreme 35mm adaptor and Nikkor glass (yes, the DP really can run like that with a 20 pound rig,) 1080/24p, first part was stock lens, I think we talked about doing 480p but just shot it normally...I think the aliasing is actually present in both and is a result of the web compression. I didn't do the final compression and uploading and I don't think I would have compressed it quite so much. Glad you liked it.

Ahhh, well given you moved the camera around a lot in the first shot, the aliasing is very pronounced (because of the heavy compression). Given you were locked down on the second shot, didn't pop out at me But yeah, you are right that certain compression settings can cause that. I forget what we use, but we've been able to avoid adding new aliasing on youtube/vimeo, because I specifically check for that!

It's amazing what you can get out of the HVX200 with enough light. I've used them with and without 35mm adapters.

 

[1dog Studios]

Yes Barry, GH2, that's right.

I had seen your 'go over' of the AF100 but I was just wanted to know or confirm that in deed the AF100 isn't just a GH2 with extras inside a different case. Since you actually go to use it I will definitely take your word for it.

Back when I was first starting my business before I had the Red1 I almost went the Pany direction with the VariCam and HVX200. The reason I had the HVX200 on my list then was due to a great article you wrote about the vast improvements Panasonic made with that camera.

I can't remember everything you said Barry, about the AF100. Did you try to capture any fast moving objects, cars, etc... If so how did it turn out?

Do you mean GH2? Of course the GH2 will have moire, it's a DSLR-type camera and they all have it. The big difference is that the Canons have the purple/orange rainbow moire, whereas the GH1/GH2 and the Nikons and Pentaxes have just black & white/luminance moire.

The AF100 doesn't have any moire at all.

 

[jdv]

When I was asleep, my T2 read this thread and hung itself. Do you see what your hate has done?

:grin:

Also, no. It's more of a RED/Scarlet killer in my mind, as it would seem to be aimed directly at those potential buyers. DSLRs will always have a place, even if it's just B-cams, due to their size.

 

[Rick Burnett]

I have no plans to sell my 7D Actually, I REALLY REALLY hope Canon releases a 7Dm2 that improves on it because as a B camera, it will get used A LOT. Some shots we do are VERY VERY tight and dangerous for the camera. I'd rather not take the chance with a $5k body

 

[Ted Ramasola]

or a 5D mark III whichever comes first....

 

[Iudex]

This thread was very interesting to read, quarrels aside...

I was wondering, how much are the GOOD lenses for the AF100 going to cost? In B&H there isn't (or I can't find) much listed. The film-like guys are going to get Nikon primes maybe?

I saw some people were wondering about the low light capabilities of the AF100 but no one answered, I have this question as well. Somebody mentioned a "sweet F0.95 lens" I think, but how much is that going to cost..? Is it reasonable to believe that the AF100 will be at a disadvantage when it comes to low light compared to the 5D or even the 7D/T2i/60D?

I don't know, I even decided to start using a T2i instead of my EX1 because of the looks and the stealth capabilities. I think there are many video, wedding and events shooters here and also many film-like narrative INDIE (and I caps this) shooters. That's why we end up seeing a lot of conflict and different points of view.

 

[Barry_Green]

I was wondering, how much are the GOOD lenses for the AF100 going to cost?

The same as they would for any other camera.

The film-like guys are going to get Nikon primes maybe?

Or Canon. Or Olympus. Or Leica. Or Zeiss. Or actual cinema lenses, like BNCR or c-mount or Aaton mount or Arri Standard or PL mount. You can adapt practically any type of lens to an AF100.

Somebody mentioned a "sweet F0.95 lens" I think, but how much is that going to cost..?

The same as it would for any other camera. The current f/0.95 lenses that are available and have been released (the Nokton and the Voigtlander) cost about $800 or so.

Is it reasonable to believe that the AF100 will be at a disadvantage when it comes to low light compared to the 5D or even the 7D/T2i/60D?

Not reasonable at all. Why would you think it should be at a disadvantage? They have large sensors, the AF100 has a large sensor. The 7D/T2i/5D are older-generation technology, the AF100 is newest-generation. Put a comparably fast lens on it and it'll probably be as good or better than the 7D/t2i/60D. The 5D has a sensor twice as big and may hold an advantage in low light, but that's a question that can only be answered with a side-by-side test.

 

[Zissou]

only real use and direct comparisons will show true results; the AF100 is a totally different animal from a HDSLR or a camcorder/35mm adapter combo; i expect it to be as different as an HDSLR from a Camcorder/35mm adapter, in a totally different way

In the mean time, the wisest course of action is to buy and use today what will afford you an AF100 tomorrow.

I started with film still cams, then DSLR's, then an HDV cam/35mm combo, now we have 2 HDV cams/35mm adapters and two (soon to be 3) HDSLR's; we use whats available, mindful of whats coming out, but one must stay grounded in what IS, otherwise whats just on the horizon is always just a few months away, and then one would never get anything done.

 

[Michael Olsen]

This is not a zero sum game.

I don't think anything will be killing off anything else anytime soon.

The DSLR "bread and butter" is stills. And that market won't be going away, so the cameras will be sticking around despite whether or not the AF-100 (or Sony or Canon or RED etc) turns out a technically better image or offers increased usability or myriad useful features.

At this point, I see it all being about variety. And I see the market stratified by financial capacity and production needs.

If you have very little money and can compromise somewhat on pretty much every aspect of production (image fidelity, audio, camera movement, lens selection, etc.) buy a DSLR and a 50/1.8 along with a cheap shotgun mic and an H4n.

Those with more money can make the choice between (essentially) a DSLR with small physical size but relatively poor image quality and fewer on-body features along with more extras for audio, timecode, and ergonomics or the AF-100 which is somewhat larger but will offer better images and more useful features as part of the package.

After that, sticking with the larger sensor size as requisite, options are limited and the RED steps to the foreground, followed by the Alexa, and then the F35.

Just because one choice is right for one person over the others doesn't mean that everyone else should make that choice or that the other options are in some way evil and malingering in their very existence. In fact, I'd say that the "right choice" might var project to project, if not shot to shot.

I think we can get too attached and emotionally invested in these pieces of equipment.

 

[Iudex]

Or Canon. Or Olympus. Or Leica. Or Zeiss. Or actual cinema lenses, like BNCR or c-mount or Aaton mount or Arri Standard or PL mount. You can adapt practically any type of lens to an AF100.

Yes, I've been reading that statement that you can use "everything"... but how many of them will be fully functional? I mean, able to use autofocus, control iris and have no image-adapting problems?

- Autofocus is not important for film guys, but it can be for video under certain circumstances.

- Iris control is important for both, but it won't matter -IF- you are using manual lenses for example. But if an ex-Canon guy sticks his 50mm 1.4 on the AF-100, he will have no control over iris and will have to stick it to his old camera to change it, right? If this is the case with many lenses, a little step backwards for the guys who won't be able to change them.

- Image-adapting... the crop factor is higher than the APS-C so I think it's reasonable to believe you will even be able to mount a Tokina 11-16 (designed for APS-C) without trouble, right? Besides this, I believe there are optical and mechanical adapters and the first kind always offer some kind of problem, like not being able to focus to infinity (please confirm this). Can we really really really expect the AF-100 to be "plug and play" with a "wide array of lenses" as Panasonic states?

This will be a very interesting, I hope it gets released as soon as possible... and I also hope the other brands do something about it!

 

[PaPa]

Different price range, different market.

 

[Barry_Green]

but how many of them will be fully functional?

That depends on the adapter you use. Today the only fully-functional electronic adapter is for Four Thirds lenses, but soon there will be an adapter for Canon and then Nikon lenses.

I mean, able to use autofocus, control iris and have no image-adapting problems?

That depends on the lens and the adapter. Pretty much without exception, cinema lenses are fully manual, so there's nothing extra necessary -- they will be fully functional in all ways. And many of the SLR lenses are fully manual. But if you want electronic functions, you'd need to wait for the appropriate electronic adapter.

But if an ex-Canon guy sticks his 50mm 1.4 on the AF-100, he will have no control over iris and will have to stick it to his old camera to change it, right?

Not sure about Canon; I know there are adapters for Nikon lenses that have an adjustment knob on the adapter that allows you to change the iris. I don't know offhand if they have the same thing for Canon.

Again, there will be a fully electronic adapter that handles this, and it should be on the market before the AF100 is, so this could all end up being a non-issue.

- Image-adapting... the crop factor is higher than the APS-C

Barely; if APS-C is a 1.0, the AF100 is 1.18.

[quoite] so I think it's reasonable to believe you will even be able to mount a Tokina 11-16 (designed for APS-C) without trouble, right?[/quote]
Yes you can adapt any APS-C lens, and even many of the longer-focal-length c-mount lenses too.

Besides this, I believe there are optical and mechanical adapters and the first kind always offer some kind of problem, like not being able to focus to infinity (please confirm this).

Optical adapters were used when trying to adapt a lens with a shorter flange focal distance to a camera that needs a longer one. Yes they were troublesome. And no, they're totally irrelevant to the AF100, because the AF100 always uses simple mechanical adapters that don't have any issue with achieving infinity focus.

Can we really really really expect the AF-100 to be "plug and play" with a "wide array of lenses" as Panasonic states?

Absolutely and unquestionably, yes. I already have used Four Thirds and Nikon adapters and PL adapters and M42 adapters and c-mount adapters. Adapting lenses to the AF100 is an effortless task and a complete no-brainer.

Right now the only question is if you're using a lens that (to me, unfathomably) doesn't offer an iris ring.

 

[bwwd]

Whoever came with "putyourgearnameherekiller" term should burn ,what is this ?
Its about price tag too you know,its not for people who own t2i right now,some people who own it arent even working cause theyre underage so its not like owners of DSLR's are only people working in film industry.I hate this term,its so lame hearing it everywhere.7D RED,GH1 RED killer killer now this ,whats next ,kill kill.So new panasonic isnt RED killer but 7D is ,great.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Well my iPhone is a Polaroid killer!!! Wait, Polaroid is already dead.

 

[ZazaCast]

Well my iPhone is a Polaroid killer!!! Wait, Polaroid is already dead.

Think again...
http://store.polaroid.com/Products/Polaroid+PoGo/Overview/Overview/1804

:thumbsup:

 

[Rick Burnett]

Haha, I should have said *my* Polaroid camera is dead I do have one but just ran out of film. I cannot convince myself to part with it.

Kids in 20 years are going to watch Memento and be very confused...

 

[ZazaCast]

^ .... I had to watch Memento 3 times before I got it! :huh: