Panasonic AF-100 being called the "DSLR killer". Any thoughts?

The way I see it, whoever makes the best film wins. I don't care if they use an AF100, or a film camera, or a dslr, or a f***ing iPhone.

I can't afford an AF100. I'd love to have one, but am very happy with my GH1. Hell, I can hardly scrape up enough for a hard drive, mic, audio recorder, shoulder mount, etc.

The way I see it, I would be using an AF100 as my main cam and my GH1 (or other similar cam) as a B cam, or for tight places.

I also agree that "pro" is very relative. Pros use whatever they feel meets their needs for a specific shot, and that will still include DSLRs once in a while.
 
One should pick the tool that is most appropriate for one's situation and the requirements of the production. It's just nice to have the range of choices available to us now with more and better to come in the near future.
 
Technically a Pro - is anyone who makes a money, or arguably a living based off of their craft.

I may not have the fanciest equipment, the biggest budgets, or the most prestigious clients, but I am by all accounts a professional. My work puts food in my belly, a roof over my head, and pays back my student loans.

We can talk cameras all day, but what it really comes down to is the ability to network and be in the right place at the right time. I don't have the most posts on here, I don't have my most exciting projects up on this site or on my vimeo and I am sure to just about anyone here I am a nobody. But that doesn't affect the fact that when I am not sitting here on the forum reading and learning that I am out in the world taking care of business.

Not trying to toot my own horn, just to remind those who feel overshadowed by others that it is all about going out there and doing regardless of the equipment you have. So lets not all get bogged down by who's equipment is better or who's dick is bigger, if you love it go out and do it. If you don't love it, then your in the wrong business.

And note, I understand this is a discussion about new equipment, It just always bums me out to see people feeling like they cant be everything they want to be because they cant afford this camera or that.

Ok have a nice day.
 
Technically a Pro - is anyone who makes a money, or arguably a living based off of their craft.

I may not have the fanciest equipment, the biggest budgets, or the most prestigious clients, but I am by all accounts a professional. My work puts food in my belly, a roof over my head, and pays back my student loans.

We can talk cameras all day, but what it really comes down to is the ability to network and be in the right place at the right time. I don't have the most posts on here, I don't have my most exciting projects up on this site or on my vimeo and I am sure to just about anyone here I am a nobody. But that doesn't affect the fact that when I am not sitting here on the forum reading and learning that I am out in the world taking care of business.

Not trying to toot my own horn, just to remind those who feel overshadowed by others that it is all about going out there and doing regardless of the equipment you have. So lets not all get bogged down by who's equipment is better or who's dick is bigger, if you love it go out and do it. If you don't love it, then your in the wrong business.

And note, I understand this is a discussion about new equipment, It just always bums me out to see people feeling like they cant be everything they want to be because they cant afford this camera or that.

Ok have a nice day.
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Exactly. Well said.
 
Agreed, and in my first response in this thread I told the O.P. that if what he has is working now, why should he even think about buying something else...

But, seems like folks want to take offense at everything nowadays. So -- formally, and officially -- guys, shoot on whatever you want. I really, really, really could not care less what you choose to shoot on. Get whatever you want, whatever makes you happy, and be just as professional and magnificent as you can be.

At no point will I be bullied into saying that a DSLR is more suitable for professional productions than an AF100 or other (future) comparable purpose-engineered video production camcorder. If that hurts people's feelings, well, that's just gotta be too bad. I use a screwdriver to drive screws, and a hammer to hammer nails. My wife uses a baby food jar to drive nails. It works for her. I think it's preposterous, but that's what she uses. And it works. Bully for her. But I'm not gonna do it, nor am I ever going to recommend to anyone else that they do it.

If someone asks "is a hammer a better tool to drive a nail with, than a baby food jar" then -- I'm gonna tell them to use the hammer. And if a hundred people come on and say "I use a baby food jar all the time, it works great" -- well, as always, to each his own. I'm still going to recommend the hammer.

Don't take the recommendation if you don't want to. Use a baby food jar to drive a nail if you want to. Do it "just to prove it can be done." Do it "because you like the way the baby food jar fits in your hand." Do it "because it's a lot less expensive than a hammer." Do it "because they used a baby food jar on the set of House, and if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for you." Go right ahead. Pick whatever you want, and go and do it. That's fine by me. And it should be fine by everyone.

But as for me, I'm gonna use a hammer. Hope that's okay with you all.
 
I think everyone has made some good points
It sounds like you are answering your own questions . If you need to be small stay small .
AF-100 wont be killing DSLRS it just another tool . albeit a bigger one with more features.
Only YOU can decide whether you need its feature set.. But why dont we wait until we actually see a real GH2 and a real AF 100 ...Then we can have some meaningful discussions ......

Larry
 
The AF-100, and subsequent large sensor HD video cameras, are going to "Kill" the HD-DSLRs just like home video "Killed" Super 8mm film, just like HD video has "Killed" SD video and just like digital cinema had "Killed" film production. Technology progresses, that is a given, but it does not always supersede the usefulness of previous technology, for specific purposes. With the advent of the AF-100, and subsequent large sensor HD video cameras, what I believe we will see is a parallel development. HD-DSLRs will be getting better and better, and filling their niche, and large sensor HD video cameras will grow to be the dominate camera of choice in the Pro market (for cinema like images). I also see the continued use, and development, of standard sized sensor HD video cameras for consumer, prosumer and professional use. No camera is perfect for every use. Let us just be thankful we are here now, with all the choices we have, and will soon have, in cameras.
 
yoclay said:
There is a whole notion here in this statement that you are not pro if you use a DSLR in the future, that I find entirely disagreeable. It is first and foremost an aesthetic choice. It does not necessarily signify that one does not have the means to conduct a proper production.
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It's ludicrous. "Pros" left and right are shooting with 5D/7D on big budget projects all over the world. I think besides the amazing image quality (with what Shane Hurlbut calls the best sensor of any video camera out right now), "pro" shooters appreciate other features like small size, light weight, ease of use with inexpensive CF cards, and inexpensive lens choices.

4/3 sensor? Meh. The 5D MKII sensor is almost 4 times larger and I have yet to encounter any shot ruining color aliasing. The only thing that will sway a large percentage of the masses (producers included) that are in the 5D/7D camp will be the work produced with the AF100, not a bunch of features the 5D/7D don't have.

.
 
"Pros" shooting with 5D/7D on big budget projects

"Pros" shooting with 5D/7D on big budget projects

>It's ludicrous. "Pros" left and right are shooting with 5D/7D on big budget projects all over the world.

For these kinds of Pros the extra effort to get these cameras working well (no question they can produce great pictures) does not matter. For kind of travel documentary this would be a painful and slow process.
 
OK. I believe the question HAS BEEN ANSWERED:

Is the AF100 a "DSLR killer"? NO. Soccer moms, photographers, low-budget indi, "pros" that prefer them for whatever reason. Done....clearly some people are NOT going to invest in the AF100 at this price. (Even though it is a STEAL for all intents and purposes.)

YES...any tool can be used to tell a story. 1/3, 2/3, 4/3, SD/HD, 8mm/16mm/35mm...OK, OK, OK.

NO...DSLRs were NOT designed or purposed with Cinema footage in mind. Not that "bolting" the kitchen sink on isn't on option. (Desireable or not)

So what the REAL story is, is this: (According to this thread) DSLRs are NOT a fad. The AF100 will not end it's demand. Enough people are "screaming" with such fervor and passion that it's fair enough to say, "OK...the demand for DSLRs continues". The AF100 will not "kill" DSLRs.
 
To me it all comes down to price. Any film that has even close to a million dollar budget (which is extremely low) will be able to afford a Red. Plently already do. I know quite a few people who have shot projects near the half million dollar mark with one.

Anything super indy that a few friends are trying to put together for a couple thousand dollars (things we see here or on video copilot for example), where every penny counts, a DSLR makes more sense.

So while I think there is a niche where the AF100 can fit, at the end of the day its just a niche.

Do I think the AF100 will perform better and be better for filiming? Yes. At least I hope so, and I hope it is the beginning of a new trend for digitsl cinema. But it is definitely a more specific and therefore less ubiquitous tool.
 
Sure Shott said:
Technically a Pro - is anyone who makes a money, or arguably a living based off of their craft.

I may not have the fanciest equipment, the biggest budgets, or the most prestigious clients, but I am by all accounts a professional. My work puts food in my belly, a roof over my head, and pays back my student loans.

We can talk cameras all day, but what it really comes down to is the ability to network and be in the right place at the right time. I don't have the most posts on here, I don't have my most exciting projects up on this site or on my vimeo and I am sure to just about anyone here I am a nobody. But that doesn't affect the fact that when I am not sitting here on the forum reading and learning that I am out in the world taking care of business.

Not trying to toot my own horn, just to remind those who feel overshadowed by others that it is all about going out there and doing regardless of the equipment you have. So lets not all get bogged down by who's equipment is better or who's dick is bigger, if you love it go out and do it. If you don't love it, then your in the wrong business.

And note, I understand this is a discussion about new equipment, It just always bums me out to see people feeling like they cant be everything they want to be because they cant afford this camera or that.

Ok have a nice day.
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+1



In the past 5 months I have made at least $5000+ Shooting projects on the side with a
Canon 7d. Now yes this is not a lot of money or nothing spectacular but to receive an extra $1000+ a month doing something you love to me is wonderful. As I continue to build clients things are going better for me, a lot better.


Working a 9 to 5 job + doing this has really helped me & I feel blessed. Nothing like going to shoot for a couple of hours and coming home with $300 in my pocket. I feel so lucky to be able to do this & all off of a Canon Hdslr.

If I were to buy this camera ( Af100) sure it might look better, BUT that doesn't mean my current clients are will to pay more money.
If I can make money with a 1K+ camera & people still be happy and constantly hire me for work then I am happy!
 
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Chris Santucci said:
It's ludicrous. "Pros" left and right are shooting with 5D/7D on big budget projects all over the world. I think besides the amazing image quality (with what Shane Hurlbut calls the best sensor of any video camera out right now), "pro" shooters appreciate other features like small size, light weight, ease of use with inexpensive CF cards, and inexpensive lens choices.

4/3 sensor? Meh. The 5D MKII sensor is almost 4 times larger and I have yet to encounter any shot ruining color aliasing. The only thing that will sway a large percentage of the masses (producers included) that are in the 5D/7D camp will be the work produced with the AF100, not a bunch of features the 5D/7D don't have.

.
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Really? You have NEVER come across a shot that was ruined because of color? I really find that hard to believe. Having shot HUNDREDS of hours on a 7D I can tell you, it's VERY easy to get colored aliasing. Roof lines that are slightly tilted, blinds in windows, bricks, patterns in clothing, amp cabinets, power lines, the list goes on and on and on

I know a good 10 or so people that also shoot on Canon DSLRs and they have the SAME problems, including the 5D and the t2i.

I've tried using the caprock 2.0 filter and it just doesn't work that often.

I know my 7D inside and out and have made a decent amount of money off of it shooting quite a bit. It's the ONLY camera I use at the moment.

The worst part is, you cannot see the aliasing on the back monitor, you have to use an external monitor or download the footage to something higher res.

And this is all 1080p mode. 720p is a JOKE. It's so full of aliasing, it makes my D90 look nice in video mode.

I will GLADLY spend more to get rid of the aliasing/moire off my 7D AND get a more robust codec that doesn't make trying to greenscreen SO difficuly because of the macro blocking.

No, I don't think the AF100 is the perfect camera either, but right now it looks like the best option to me to make my life easier and my shots more predictable.
 
grimepoch said:
Really? You have NEVER come across a shot that was ruined because of color? I really find that hard to believe. Having shot HUNDREDS of hours on a 7D I can tell you, ...
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Yep, it's true, "... I have yet to encounter any shot ruining color aliasing."

I SEE it every now and then as I also see moire, but neither has drawn enough attention to itself to have a client question it or my choice of gear.

.
 
Chris Santucci said:
Yep, it's true, "... I have yet to encounter any shot ruining color aliasing."

I SEE it every now and then as I also see moire, but neither has drawn enough attention to itself to have a client question it or my choice of gear.

.
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Well I am just not going to take that chance. Given some of the material I shot is destined for television shortly, the last thing I want in my portfolio is something that is very easy to see AND is very distracting. It wouldn't be as bad if it were not colored, but I've got some footage of a scientist sitting on a couch that looks like an oil slick on water. I've got images over buildings at night where a slow pan with the camera causes a rainbow edge zipping across the image because of the architecture. I've got grills on the front of cars you'd think the engine leaked oil onto the front of the car.

Why would I not want a camera that can get rid of this with NO extra effort on my part?

Granted, trying to compare the 5D to the AF100 is two different ballparks in my opinion. The 5D is such a large sensor and really has different applications. But for cameras like the 7D, 60D, t2i, GH1 and GH2 it all comes down to what is important to you. The difference in size between APS-C and m4/3 from panasonic is very minor. I like shooting in the S35 size so I never had a desire to get a 5dm2 at any point. I've used them and just not what I want. But, now that I've been shooting the 7D for a very long time, I see the improvements made on the AF100 and I understand why they are there and why for a professional, this camera makes the entire process of shooting video easier, predictable, and higher quality.

Sure, I use the 7D now for paying gigs ALL the time. Obviously you can make GREAT productions with all these cameras, and you will still be able to in the future. But even I can see that when I start shooting on the AF100, I don't have to bring so much extra gear, and I feel more confident that the quality of results are going to be higher, especially for my 3D work and VFX compositing. And if I need even a little better quality, I can slap a Ki pro mini on the SDI output as well.

I don't think the AF100 is going to be a DSLR killer in the least, because let's face it, not everyone has $5k sitting around to spend. The people who would be buying a 7D, GH1 or what have you are still going to get the same thing because it's in a price point they are in. For people buying a 5D for FF35, who need FF35 because of it's FoV are still going to get a 5D if they need that capability. As a filmmaker who used an HVX200 on many a project, and then the 7D, I see a lot of people who may have toyed around with a t2i or 7d (or GH1) are going to look at the features of the AF100 and see a camera that can fill a void. No more 12 min limits on the card, no more multiple pieces of equipment to get good audio in, professional monitoring capabilities like waveforms, audio levels and zebras. No, you don't need these, but they do help you get a better capture faster with less chance of blowing the shot.

Even the built in EVF is gonna be handy when shooting in the sun, or built in ND filters so I don't have to use a matte box or carry around a bunch of solutions since my lenses have different sizes and I have a bunch of step up/down rings.

When I hear the word professional though, I don't care what you shoot on myself. I just want to see your work. Equipment being 'professional' can be a pretty nefarious term. I see everyday people using professionally marked equipment and vice-versus all the time.

Of course, one must realize that until the AF100 is out in the wild, we really don't know. If it really has 10.5 stops of DR, that's fantastic. What about low light sensitivity? And if the rolling shutter is in fact faster than the current DSLR crop, bring it on!! I'd love to get less jello when trying to do some types of shots!!

I will say this though, I don't feel the 7D persay is targeted at the PROFESSIONAL motion picture capture (meaning not any group of video capturers) I think this is the distinction being made. While professionals can use the 7D and get professional results, that wasn't the target market of the camera for video, which is clear to me. The AF100 IS targeted at the professional segment and therefore contains more tools that a professional will want. I still think the DSLRs will outsell because normal consumers are going to buy them. People that would NEVER buy a $5k camera ever.
 
My god, this thread is going around in circles. Who cares what ur shooting on, go do great work. Buy what you can and move on.
 
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