Panasonic 4K GH4 possibly coming next Spring...

John Caballero said:
??? This I can't really understand. If someone doesn't like the stills mode just don't go there. Simple. Don't use it. On the GH line it is clear that stills are secondary. To me a 4K camera with the GH functionallity and ergonomics is just fantastic. And any intelligent person understands that software as well as hardware developments in this area are still evolving. Codecs, sensors, etc. will continue to improve. Let's hope the GH4K brings many of these improvements with it now.
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Lots of people on the webs (here and other places) are wishing the sensor was 8K instead of 16mp so that the downsampling would be better. Obviously they are interested in video only and care less for the stills side. So what I am saying is hold off for a 4k video only camera with the specs and price that suit you instead of buying a hybrid that has 16+mp's. How hard is that to understand? These 4K video only cameras with ND, XLR, proper exposure aids, SDi and HDMI out are just around the corner.....

Because the camera has a stills sensor in it, IT WILL affect the quality for video. Even if the camera is tuned for video. Think of how the C100 and 300 are 4k cameras with proper downsampling for 1080HD.
 
John Caballero said:
We will see how all the other supposedly yet to be announced 4K cameras turn out.
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And that is part of why I have the suspicion that Panny is going to get this to market sooner than later. They don't want us to see the other cameras. They want us to jump the gun and order this before NAB.
 
John Caballero said:
??? This I can't really understand. If someone doesn't like the stills mode just don't go there. Simple. Don't use it. On the GH line it is clear that stills are secondary.
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Surely the GH cameras are primarily stills cameras, and coming from Panasonics still camera division?

And as dustylense says, if you want primarily a video camera, you don't start with a 12-16megapixel sensor. It's more than needed for even 4K video, and being more doesn't make things better. Quite the opposite - in the past it's meant that parts of the sensor have had to be unread. Even if they have improved the read/processing, then certain ergonomic aspects are still far more suited to a still camera than one mainly intended for video - NDs, for example?

Currently, arguably the best approach for any camera primarily for video is a sensor 3840x2160 for quad-HD, or 4096x2160 for "true" 4K - so just over 8 megapixels. But that's not nowadays considered adequate for a good stills camera. (Dustylense - is that a misprint - do you mean people are hoping for an 8 megapixel sensor, not an 8K one?)

We know Panasonic have an upmarket s35 camera under development (from the video division), I see these rumours as most likely being about an evolution of the GH3, and most likely still primarily a stills camera with video mode. OK, many here want something in between - a large sensor video camera but at nowhere near the price of the Varicam. I just don't see that coming, at least not yet. We'll see.
 
What we're going to get is a GH3 that shoots 8bit 4:2:0 Quad HD to H.264 at 200Mbps and 24/30fps. Don't expect anything more or you're going to just disappoint yourself.

We aren't getting an Alexa in a mirrorless body with global shutter and ND filters for under $2K, probably ever. At least not from Japan.
 
420 quadHD has more information than 444 1080p (same color information, 4 times as much luminance information)
it's DR that still concerns me (and bit depth if they somehow solve DR)
 
What's obvious is that Panny wants to get ahead of the big market change coming this spring.
What isn't obvious is warnings about expectations.
Friday will deliver a better camera than the GH3
Other than that, Friday will tell.

Regarding 4k for 4k's sake though, I've just finished a film open and a pair of TV spots with the BM camera the past couple of weeks.
From the admittedly scarce BM 4k footage I've seen so far, I would have shot them on the BMCC an BMPPC given the choice.
The BM 4k footage looks anything but filmic to me and starts to remind me of the Hobbit 24/48p debate.

My point being, I wouldn't be interested in the new GH4 simply for 4k.
It's got to bring a lot more to the table - RX10 functionality at the least.
If the new sensor has more of a BM DR and color and lose the moire, then it would be a no brainer.
But with everything we're going to hear about in the next three months, it would have to be a lot more than a GH3 with 4k to move anyone in numbers.

I bet it's more rather than less.
This camera has been in development since before the GH3 was released and I believe, from a couple of reputable sources, that it's been at another level of functionality and video-centricity since it's inception.
I believe it will be the first DSLR package truly developed for film making with photography as a secondary purpose/add on.

The RX10 is sort of that, but more of a video camera in output.

What "might" make me all over a GH4 is if the sensor and processor are designed more like the C100/C300.
Then, with a speed booster, it might rival a 1DC...especially with Metabones saying the EF adapter is near ready.
 
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jimagine said:
What "might" make me all over a GH4 is if the sensor and processor are designed more like the C100/C300.
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But..... if they were, it would severely compromise it's abilities as a stills camera!

Just as it wouldn't be sensible to expect the sensor/processor of C100/C300 to make the best stills camera.
 
You're missing my point.
I think Panasonic is releasing this as a video camera without concern to compromising stills.
Stills being a plus, not the purpose.
 
Why would they release a DSLR whose secondary purpose is taking photographs? Why not just release a video camera? No OLPF == artifacts and still cameras cannot stand OLPFs that are aggressive enough for moving pictures, right?
 
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To it's users yeah, especially those who hacked it but the rumor is about something the manufacturer may or may not do, so it's not from the user perspective but from the perspective of Panasonic. I have a GH, I shoot video with it but from it's controls and it's form factor, it's a stills camera first. Unless I'm blind ...
 
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John Caballero said:
The GH line has always been more about video than stills. If people can't see that they are really blind.
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Somewhat agreed. It is at the very minimum a true hybrid...designed from the VERY first model with video functions in mind to go along with more than competent stills features. Quite different though from Canon and Nikon who essentially tacked the video on to their early models.
 
John Caballero said:
The GH line has always been more about video than stills. If people can't see that they are really blind.
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Blind as in you can't see the xlr inputs? Or maybe you can't see the focus peaking? Maybe that eyesight is lacking finding the waveform function? Or maybe it's always just so dark out that the ND wheel had no function. That mini hdmi out on the gh1,2, and 3 sure carries a recordable signal. Maybe if one puts the camera on "bulb" setting and self timer their vision will improve? Or at least use the pop up flash to light up that dark room. And if your pop up flash breaks, you can always use the HOTshoe to attach a flash. Hey, im having a hard time seeing what's under that circle plastic piece that unscrews in the upper left front of the camera. Is that a PC terminal for strobe or the sdi out? But you call it what you want. It's obviously a video camera before a stills camera because it has an all-I h264 codec (that actually sucks as most people prefer the ibp codec). Must be the weather sealing that makes it a video camera......
just because the gh2 and 3 does well for video over other Dslr form factors does not make the system a video camera first. It's a very large world out there and 1000s of people bought them for stills photography.
 
Blind as in you can't see the xlr inputs? Or maybe you can't see the focus peaking? Maybe that eyesight is lacking finding the waveform function? Or maybe it's always just so dark out that the ND wheel had no function. That mini hdmi out on the gh1,2, and 3 sure carries a recordable signal. Maybe if one puts the camera on "bulb" setting and self timer their vision will improve? Or at least use the pop up flash to light up that dark room. And if your pop up flash breaks, you can always use the HOTshoe to attach a flash. Hey, im having a hard time seeing what's under that circle plastic piece that unscrews in the upper left front of the camera. Is that a PC terminal for strobe or the sdi out? But you call it what you want. It's obviously a video camera before a stills camera because it has an all-I h264 codec (that actually sucks as most people prefer the ibp codec). Must be the weather sealing that makes it a video camera......
just because the gh2 and 3 does well for video over other Dslr form factors does not make the system a video camera first. It's a very large world out there and 1000s of people bought them for stills photography.
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Then you go out and buy a $5000.00 plus real video camera with all the goodies! You want a full blown video camera, then you have to spend the money. For the price, the GH line puts out a heck of a great video image quality despite its video functionality limitations. Get real people, these are low budget cameras with low budget features. If you are a real pro then go out and spend the real money. That way you will have nothing to complain about. All the expectations will be fulfilled. Well, maybe.
 
dustylense said:
Blind as in you can't see the xlr inputs? Or maybe you can't see the focus peaking? Maybe that eyesight is lacking finding the waveform function? Or maybe it's always just so dark out that the ND wheel had no function. That mini hdmi out on the gh1,2, and 3 sure carries a recordable signal. Maybe if one puts the camera on "bulb" setting and self timer their vision will improve? Or at least use the pop up flash to light up that dark room. And if your pop up flash breaks, you can always use the HOTshoe to attach a flash. Hey, im having a hard time seeing what's under that circle plastic piece that unscrews in the upper left front of the camera. Is that a PC terminal for strobe or the sdi out? But you call it what you want. It's obviously a video camera before a stills camera because it has an all-I h264 codec (that actually sucks as most people prefer the ibp codec). Must be the weather sealing that makes it a video camera......
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That's just plain silly.

just because the gh2 and 3 does well for video over other Dslr form factors does not make the system a video camera first. It's a very large world out there and 1000s of people bought them for stills photography.
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And then you go on to make sense....:undecided
 
harddrive said:
...if you want primarily a video camera, you don't start with a 12-16megapixel sensor.
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At least 12-13 megapixel would fit quite exactly a 4k pattern having in mind that such a sensor would have an aspect ratio of 4:3 and not 16:9 or an even broader "true" 4K aspect ratio. But despite this observation I basically share your reservations, especially as there seems to be a 16 mp sensor in the GH4.
 
John Caballero said:
The GH line has always been more about video than stills. If people can't see that they are really blind.
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That is simply not true at all. It is a hybrid and designed to handle both very well. I'm tried of people crapping on the GH3 when it comes to stills. There is nothing wrong with the GH3 or other m43 cameras when it comes to stills. Considering the sensor and limited market share Panasonic and Olympus has done a lot to make m43 a solid option for taking stills. If somebody can't take darn good stills with a GH3 then they are doing something wrong.
 
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