PAL 25p vs. 24p

O

onmi

Active member
Hey,

If I film with PAL camera 25p, will it look almost same as 24p or 24pa ?
Is there any difference between 24p and 24pa look when its normally watched non-edited?

There have been some talk that PAL version does littlebit richer colors than NTSC,
is that difference clearly visible?
Can the camera be switched from options to perform just about same as NTSC version does? (I mean that the colors and look is excatly same as in NTSC, and no more saturated colors than NTSC has)

I have been impressed what kind of look DVX does, but Im bit worried that the PAL version would perform differently than NTSC :( Can there be big or even small clearly visible difference between NTSC's and PAL's videolook?
 
The biggest difference is that PAL shoots 4:2:0 and NTSC shoots 4:1:1.

But dont be worried about that it looks different. How you light will have the biggest effect.
 
"The biggest difference is that PAL shoots 4:2:0 and NTSC shoots 4:1:1."

What does 4:2:0 mean? Does it boost some colors more?
 
Originally Posted by onmi
What does 4:2:0 mean? Does it boost some colors more?
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It refers to chroma subsampling. PAL has a different implementation than NTSC. This explains it well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

Originally Posted by onmi
Is there any difference between 24p and 24pa look when its normally watched non-edited?
Click to expand...

I doubt that there is practically any detectable difference between 24p and 25p, not with the human eye at least. However, 25p is slightly easier to work with, what without pulldowns and such. PAL is also of higher resolution. As for colour sampling, 4:2:0 and 4:1:1 are rather similar; I wouldn't worry.
 
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Nobody would ever notice a difference. If you are in a PAL country, get the PAL, no doubt about that. :)
 
PAL looks sharper, slightly better colors also. 25p also technically simpler, straight recording without pulldown hassles etc.

"Nobody would ever notice a difference" Ha, just compare NTSC and PAL side by side. Every time I visit USA I am shocked how bad the TV looks.
 
MovieSwede said:
But dont be worried about that it looks different. How you light will have the biggest effect.
Click to expand...
THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH....


Do you really think you can tell the difference between 24p and 25
... Its so subtle its meaningless

As i always say...when you watch a band play live, there are three musician in the crowd and the other 1000 are there for the fun
 
I did little search and found out some 24p and 25p clips and compared them, and they look to me very very different..

24p(a?):
http://www.jlucusphoto.com/media/good skate footage edit.wmv
http://www.jlucusphoto.com/media/goldyhigh.wmv

^- Looks very film like, very light 'pro colors', very nice progressive look and everything looks just perfect. Colors and everything are perfect.

25p:
http://www.techcrew.se/25p.wmv
http://www.techcrew.se/dudis/bubbelfuse.wmv
^- Looks very much of normal DV video, looks like almost like 50i

www.techcrew.se/nimbus_short.wmv
^- Too less frames, very flickerin (Can be from compress?) But still it doesent look like those 24p clips.

Can that framerate really look so different between 24p/24pa and 25p as it appears in those clips?
To me the those clips looks are so different, that it feels like those could have been filmed on with different cameras..
 
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I don't have the mental strenght to look at all the clips, but my guess is that they are all just shot differently, different scene file settings and shutter speeds. Do a direct comparison with two cameras in the same place, and I don't think you'd notice any other difference than the slightly sharper PAL footage.
 
Yes, that would be best to compare same guys footage. But those 25p and 24p footages have been shooted with almost same shutters.

Accordin to users who posted those urls:
25p.wmv = 25p 1/50
bubbelfuse.wmv = 25P 1/50, normal gamma/matrix
nimbus_short.wmv = 25P shot 1/120

And 24p user:
good skate footage edit.wmv = "I usually kept the shutter speed at 1/60 but for the snow shot that was 1/500 and I think a few others might have been 1/120."

So shutter have been almost same in those vids? (But, I dont know is there any other option in that cam which can turn it to look more progressive)

I had GL2 and it has that 25p "frame mode", and it looked almost just like those 25p .wmv videos above. Too jerky or just too smooth with tripod. Will DVX 25p cam create those frames just like GL2's frame mode?

I dont think that 1frame difference can do such a big difference in look. But something is still doing it? :)
 
Well sometimes you think that progressive looks like video. You forget we shoot with 1/50 shutter just to make to footage smoth. And I think you got fooled by the smooth footage. If you shoot exactly the same thing with 50i you would se the difference. I have done test were I shoot exactly the same thing

25P Cinegamma, Cinecolor, 1/50
25P Cinegamma, Videocolor, 1/50
50i Videogamma, Videocolor, 1/50
25P Cinegamma, Cinecolor, 1/500

No question about it 25P didnt look like video.

So i think higher shutterspeeds is more filmlook for you.
 
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