P2 Varicam DVD sampler?

[Mike Krumlauf]

Trying to find the old promotional material for the P2 Varicams as I collect old promo DVDs. If anyone has anything varicam related from 2001-the p2 area please let me know

 

[Run&Gun]

I don't recall if there was one for the 2700/3700. But I do remember thinking "Oh God, not P2." when they introduced them. Ironically, the 2700 became my favorite camera and still holds that spot even today.

I'm pretty sure I have the PDF brochure, if you'd like that.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

I don't recall if there was one for the 2700/3700. But I do remember thinking "Oh God, not P2." when they introduced them. Ironically, the 2700 became my favorite camera and still holds that spot even today.

I'm pretty sure I have the PDF brochure, if you'd like that.

I really love my 2700 as well, makes me wonder why i ventured off to the F900s for a year lol. I have the PDF already via the goodman's guide P2 that I have . btw, did you ever see my PM to you about Film_Rec from the H vs 2700? I was meaning to add in that if using filmlike 3 and DRS 3 would give me a wider DR than film rec at 600% in the 2700?

 

[Run&Gun]

Yes I did. I’ve been meaning to respond, but I’m not overly familiar with those specific differences, since I never really used some of them.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

Yes I did. I’ve been meaning to respond, but I’m not overly familiar with those specific differences, since I never really used some of them.

Do you have any of your 2700 footage I could see? Would love to see some of your work

 

[QuickHitRecord]

I really love my 2700 as well, makes me wonder why i ventured off to the F900s for a year lol.

What are you finding that you prefer about the Varicam? I shot with one for years, but lately have been intrigued by the F900s as an alternative tool for narrative work. Is the Varicam much smaller?

 

[Run&Gun]

What are you finding that you prefer about the Varicam? I shot with one for years, but lately have been intrigued by the F900s as an alternative tool for narrative work. Is the Varicam much smaller?

Virtually the same size. They are both full size 2/3" ENG bodies. The 900's (F900 and F900R) are both native tape. The "original" F900 did not have an HD-SDI output, only three analog component outputs. You had to use something like an Evertz or Miranda that locked onto the back and interfaced with the multi-pin connection to gain HD-SDI out(also believe there was one that could be mounted on the side and utilized the analog component connections to give you a combined HD signal). The 900R is in a slightly shorter body and gained SDI. The 2700 is native P2/solid state media with the modern IN's & OUT's that you would expect(the camera was designed roughly a decade after the original F900). Like native HDCAM, DVCProHD is not full raster, but the 2700 records not only DVCProHD, but also AVC-Intra 50 and 100. AVC-I 100 is full raster for the same bit-rate/space of DVCProHD. I don't know if 50 is full raster or not. DVCProHD and AVC-I 100 are both 100mbps codecs.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

I should add a little to Run&Guns posts. The big thing I hated about the tape varicam and F900 is that in order to get 10bit from them you had to use something like an AJA Kipro which meant you had extra weight to already beefy cameras and wires like power and SDI being taped along the side and given the cameras (tape varicam and f900) were not truly meant to record 10bit, you got annoying artifacting lines around things like street lights.. i spent unneeded money trying to fix what i thought was a broken camera only to realize its just how they were built. They were made as 8bit recorders and dont get me wrong, their 8bit both HDCAM and DVCPRO HD gave beautiful images.. but.. I will say after being around videotape again since 2015 and now moving back to tapeless it really is a blessing! I love the archival properties of videotape but for me, something like P2 lets me move that much faster. I owned the Panavision modified F900 and yes, it is a fantastic camera in its own right but after returning to the varicam line with the HPX2700 I honestly have to tell you from my experience the Varicams (both tape and P2) have the edge over the F900. The 900 was stupid heavy for its size, like run and gun said, required a miranda DVC800 for SDI and again, SDI from these cameras are nowhere near the master quality from AVC-Intra inside the varicams.. the 10bit AVCintra 4:2:2 from the varicam with film rec give you a far more filmic base to start with than the F900 could ever give you. IMHO its not always about resolution. I thankfully get work where they are more interested in the looks I can create than if its 4K or not.. if it needs to be 4K i just rent. Panasonic seriously hit many home runs with their first 2 generations of varicams and even their current 35 line.. the varicam just has this mojo in it that when used right has some of the most filmic digital images ive ever seen. the HPX2700 easily has close to 13 stops of DR when set up properly and utilizing film_rec. This gives you a lot of room in an app like davinci to get experimental with your final look.

So after that long winded reply, I highly suggest to save your money and look at the varicams. If you want the best 10bit possible stick with the P2 Varicams. If the HPX2700 is as good as i've been getting, i can only imagine the HPX3700! the HPX3700 also has true LOG 4:4:4 RGB from its HDSDI as well.

 

[QuickHitRecord]

Thank you both for the useful insights. I think you might be onto something with these older ENG cameras. There is definitely a look and feel to the images I've seen coming out of them (Mike, I looked through a bunch of your YouTube videos today).

 

[Run&Gun]

Something else that these cameras have that our current gen s35’s don’t: 3x CCD’s. No flash banding or skew and full rez color(no Bayer pattern).

Aaaand superior ergonomics, at least in my opinion.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

Thank you both for the useful insights. I think you might be onto something with these older ENG cameras. There is definitely a look and feel to the images I've seen coming out of them (Mike, I looked through a bunch of your YouTube videos today).

Hope you liked what you saw haha. Yes, the older digi cinema cameras are the best! I have sworn by them for years.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

Something else that these cameras have that our current gen s35’s don’t: 3x CCD’s. No flash banding or skew and full rez color(no Bayer pattern).

Aaaand superior ergonomics, at least in my opinion.

agree with everything said here.

 

[boo]

Hi Mike,

Did you also notice the street light artifact/vertical line smearing on the HDC27H shooting ProRes? -> (HDC27H going out the HD-SDI spigot into the Ki Pro Mini recording ProRes). I'm going to test this out as soon as I get a Gold Mount battery. Thanks.

BTW, while the HPX3700 has true LOG 4:4:4 RGB from its HDSDI, you lose out on the variable frame rates as it was not included in this model and not sure why they also called it a Varicam.

 

[Run&Gun]

Hi Mike,

Did you also notice the street light artifact/vertical line smearing on the HDC27H shooting ProRes? -> (HDC27H going out the HD-SDI spigot into the Ki Pro Mini recording ProRes). I'm going to test this out as soon as I get a Gold Mount battery. Thanks.

BTW, while the HPX3700 has true LOG 4:4:4 RGB from its HDSDI, you lose out on the variable frame rates as it was not included in this model and not sure why they also called it a Varicam.

It's a true VariCam that does have variable frame rates just like the 27 and 2700. Its just that the 3700 tops out at 30fps instead of 60fps like the other two 720p models, so it's variable range is 1-30fps at 1080.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

Hi Mike,

Did you also notice the street light artifact/vertical line smearing on the HDC27H shooting ProRes? -> (HDC27H going out the HD-SDI spigot into the Ki Pro Mini recording ProRes). I'm going to test this out as soon as I get a Gold Mount battery. Thanks.

BTW, while the HPX3700 has true LOG 4:4:4 RGB from its HDSDI, you lose out on the variable frame rates as it was not included in this model and not sure why they also called it a Varicam.

I did notice it when I went back to footage shot on it while trying to figure out the F900. its what lead me to realize its just how the cameras are built. I will say that its barely noticeable in the Varicam H, probably due to the 720p. This strange anomaly can be seen in professional films done on the F900 like A Prairie Home Companion (pay attention to the lights outside the theater in the beginning as kevin kline is walking in), Coppola's youth without youth (a scene mid film with a big cargo airplane, its on the airplanes lights) and collateral (the scene where the guy falls on the cab, its noticeable in a few frames but you have to pause it. Its a very minimal issue and if professional filmmakers like coppola, mann and altman can look past it . The big thing was I just personally grew tired of going the external route which means added weight and cables and i was tired of video tape and having to play back the tape in realtime via HD SDI to digitize.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

View attachment 135551

Here is a shot from the Varicam where it is present. Its on that right light in the distance on the boat as well as on the lights inside the two sides of the lake shore drive bridge. You can barely make it out. The issue is a bigger problem when trying to get 10bit from an F900.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

Here is a close up of the artifact from an F900 so you can visually see whats going on. Those half circle lines to the right of the light. Some people early on thought it was CCD Clock Noise but I came to the conclussion that nothing is wrong with the camera, its the sensor transmitting 8bits worth of information in a 10bit space and loosing signal in high areas where it doesnt know what to do, kind of like blowing up a low res jpeg.. just because you blew it up doesnt mean its sharper. When i shot on tape with the F900 and those lines were gone it all made sense to me. Now again, this problem DOES exist as i looked back on the varicam but its no where near as bad and im sure it has to do with resolution. I shot SDI with the kipro from an SDX900 for 10bit 480p and the problem was not there at all. So while the Varicam H and F900 CAN give you a true 10bit signal, the sensor and boards leading down the pipline to the SDI are not built to handle 10bit as a recording medium. back then these cameras were being used with their SDI as a monitor feed.

And per film history, many people have shot SDI out with the tape varicam and F900 including high end filmmakers.. the problem is in their films and they dont seem to make light or care about it. If you are finding it in your footage and its really bugging you badly, just shoot DVCPRO HD tape and log the tape into the KiPro in realtime.. its what I did on the F900 and for web based stuff and the minimal amount of color correction i was doing, the 8bit vs 10bit thing wasnt an issue.

Edit: I have no idea why the varicam picture uploaded again.