P2 Metadata Features Unusable in Avid?? Help

M

MagicCat

Well-known member
Can someone help me out here?

Im Editing in Avid 5-7 and am in the middle of several Long form DV50 projects. I recommended P2 Viewer to my producer to use for the creation of a shot list. I had thought the P2 format was wonderful, in conjunction with the P2 Viewer because it allows you to go through and rename all the (user Clip) titles of the files that were shot, among many other really nice Pre-Post logging features. I really thought I had the whole thing organized quite efficiently until I went to import the P2 media Into Avid. The shot names in the bin are still Identical to what came off the camera the day we shot it??!!. If I bring that Virtual P2 Card back into P2 Viewer, it sees all the new\ly names files. All the work of renaming files in P2 Viewer, creating custom Virtual P2 Card folders ETC, seems to have been a complete waste of time.




I have tried both Methods of Importing the P2 media,
1. File/Import P2 Clips
and
2. Transferring all the raw MXF Video/Audio into the Avid MediaFiles/MXF/1 bin as described in the sticky.

Avid still defaults to the original Clip Names that were given to the shots, at the point of Acquisition. I am assuming this is User Issues on my end.... Right?...Please tell me I'm the one who is messing up or the producer is going to do unspeakable things to me. We have 5 more long form Projects on the table. If I cannot find a way to make P2 work for her, I'm sunk

To be efficient, here is some info that might help someone provide and answer.

Camera, HVX200 (american Serialed)
Several 4Gb P2 Cards
Firmware on Camera: 4.06

Camera Menu settings: Metadata/Record/ ON
User Clip Name/ Type 2


If Avid or other NLE's will not see all the P2 Viewer input Data, then what the heck did they create such a wonderful, rich in features format/Viewer for if I cannot use all that data practically? I love this Camera and knew I was coming in at the Infancy of something new with P2. But this is really frustrating. All I really have to go by for and EDL list is Time code. And that turned over several times during the course of the shoot.


"What a Fine mess I have got myself into Ollie"

David AKA: MagicCat

440-645-8273 I will gladly return any call so it is my Dime, not yours.
 
Avid doesn't exactly have robust MXF/P2 support. It's got pretty much the bare minimum, actually.

It will support the User Clip Name, but only if that name was assigned from the camera initially -- Avid doesn't know about the User Clip Name that's been assigned after the fact. As I understand it, Avid in fact ignores all the metadata that's contained in the XML file.

All your metadata is there, and would be fully supported in EDIUS, and partly supported in Mac with Raylight. But as far as Avid supporting it -- only Avid can answer that question.

(for an enterprising programmer who might want to help -- it's my understanding that the User Clip Name is not only held in the XML file, but is also embedded in the video MXF file's structure... so it would seem relatively trivial to extract the User Clip Name field out of the XML and write it into the field in the video MXF file. Any takers?)
 
Wow,

That is what I thought. What a waste of Data. Unless I decide to buy and learn yet another NLE, I guess I will have to deal with the wrath of my producer.

You are right about a saavy programmer. I have thought the same many many times. The first person out there to make use of this format's Potential in data Robustly-ness for Avid and others, will unleash the full potential of P2, and become Panasonics best friend or even savior. If nothing is done, they can replace the P in P2 with an M. There are very distinct odors I can almost recognize here...


Thanks for your reply Barry, you are a Fountain of Education, sound reasoning and diplomatic grace for Camerafolk as well as Vidiots like me, everywhere.

Ever think about about a career in politics? Lots a Job openings coming up in a year or so...

MagicCat
 
Glad to help, and thanks for saying such nice things!

I'll keep looking for solutions; I think the metadata is going to be the "next big thing" but unless Avid and Apple take advantage of it, it's always going to be marginalized. We EDIUS users can use it all day long, and P2CMS makes it accessible for Mac users to enter & edit, and Raylight makes it sort of accessible to Mac users on the timeline, but Avid is kind of left floating right now.
 
Your very welcome!

I can see great things coming from the use of the Metadata here. I feel P2 is in it's infancy, and accepted the risk when I bit into it. I only wish some of the NLE's were a little quicker to embrace it. I can clearly see a Producer's version of P2 Viewer become a very powerful Item. The ability for a producer to do I/O marks per clip and export that data as a rough EDL for the Editor.

fopr what it is worth, Right now, we copy everything over to a backup drive and send that to the producer along with P2Viewer. As it stands, the Producer makes a new Virtual P2 Card and copies Clips into that folder for the edit. If it is segments, or even just B-roll for a video, then multiple NEW virtual P2 Cards are made and labeled accordingly. They send this back to me and we just import those raw clips into Avids Mediafiles folder as described in the Avid Sticky on P2 here.

Im curious, what version of Edius do you use? Maybe I should give it a whirl. Im not tied to any one editing platform. I just use what works for each and every individual project.

The other thing I dont like about Avid is that it seems to be very unforgiving when it comes to Mixing Formats. SD/HD, no 30p here, Only 60I there. It is very Tiring. (In reality, I have to giggle. Just 3 years ago, I shot in ONE format, One Frame Rate and ONE Aspect ratio. I think we all have to keep that in mind as we find reasons to want more out of our NLE's)

Anyway, if it is any help to anyone, I use the little transcoder that Came with DVRack HD to convert the MXF to AVI-2. Then bring it all into a final targetd format setting in premiere, and re-export that. It seems to hold up alright and is the easiest way to make things work for me.

Edius sounds interesting. It sure would be nice to sit in front of one NLE for once and do what needs doing, no matter what is thrown at me.

I still look at an old Pinnacle DC50 system sitting here when I get too frustrated with things as a reminder.


MagicCat
 
I'm still on the ancient EDIUS Broadcast version 3.6. The latest version is 4.5.

EDIUS supports all the metadata natively. It brings in the clips either as the file name or the User Clip Name, and keeps all the scene #, take #, shooter, all that stuff, all the way through the whole production process. And it has a truly open timeline so you can put HD, SD, PAL, NTSC, variable frame rate footage, whatever -- all on the same time line, all with realtime playback. EDIUS also lets you edit directly from the P2 cards, or from the files you've offloaded -- i.e., no need to copy them to a separate Avid MediaFiles/MXF/1 directory.

Download the trial edition and check it out; it's definitely the most metadata-friendly editor out there right now.
 
Hmmm

My heart is pumping. I use about 2 or 3 platforms to get what needs doing done as it is, I guess it is time I stimulate the brain cells and open up to something new. Again. Thanks for the info, deeply.


It is said, "if you dont learn from the past, you are doomed to repeat it".

I find that the Video Industry can be Paralelled to EXACTLY what the Audio Recording industry went through 20 years ago starting with the advent of the DAT recorder, and it's becoming available to the average Joe. Home studio's cropped up, ADAT,s, The Compact Disc recorder and duplicator ETC. The major studio's had to re-invent themselves and figure out how to stay in Business.

When someone says. What do you think is next? I tell them to look at the recent history of Digital audio and the evolution of it. Apply it to todays Video/Indy film industry and youll get a sense for what the next trend or needs will be.

All the musicians go nuts for That "Tube Warmth" sound now. Record it on a Computer and you have Digital Dirt.

I think Im gonna hang onto my small collection of Vintage Tube Cameras so when that RetroVision becomes the latest trend, I will be ahead of the ballgame. I say this with a healthy amount of sarcasm and silly-ness. (But I really do have several Trinicon toobers that could still shoot an entire season of Lawrence Welk without incident.)

Im just waiting for the day when I see a "Tube Camera Emulation" Plug-in come out. Hee he he...hee?


MagicCat
 
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