P2 Group Buy discussion

Jennyparis

Jennyparis

Well-known member
Jarred authorized to develop this idea.

From now on, I propose to post here everything related to P2 group buy project, arguments, ideas and advancement.

Today, monday 15th Jan, I contacted Panasonic Europe HQ to find the right person to talk with.
The growth of our members list is now the tangible fact, if you want to help showing the P2 price is of concern, by having a significative number of member.
Everything starts little, with a good will and some effort. And it grows!
 
I love the idea, but I'd be happy if we wait until the 16GB cards are available and develop the idea till then... or what are the points to start BEFORE the 16GBs are available?
 
Actually, you can mention 2x16Gig.
Yes, those wishing 16Gig can use list, too.
After finding a person name this morning at Panasonic Europe HQ, would like to ask him some questions about 16Gig, too.
Fellows here need mainly an existing product TODAY, so the 8Gig is on focus.
 
Ok,
I've put an 1x8GB already, but I could be interested in the 16GB also depends on price...as I'm also in the Cineporter Buying list.
Jenny, I also contacted Videoplus in Paris by phone 10 days ago, talked to Gerad, but never got an answer or mail. The reason is that we've got the HVX without p2 or firestore, looking for something better (cineporter) or cheaper cards.
Do you know if they could sell and ship outside France, we really need at least one 8GB, then we can wait for the Group buy for more. Should I send a parisien friend over there to pick it up?

thank you!

Rap
 
What price is the group aiming for? I actually don't want any special price, I just want the announced price (550€). I am not paying anything more than that. If that is, what you are trying to get, then I am in, although I am rather sceptical about Panasonic's decisions.
 
Raptor,
I think they don't ship abroad, did you reserve a card @ 550€ there?

Jwfilm,
it costs nothing to join a growing group showing common interest for a P2 group buy, but we need to be together before dring contacting them.
I got a first contact name at Pana Europe HQ this morning.
There is a lot of info about the idea behind this structured grouping, not a one shot opportunity.
 
Jennyparis said:
it costs nothing to join a growing group showing common interest for a P2 group buy, but we need to be together before dring contacting them.
I got a first contact name at Pana Europe HQ this morning.
There is a lot of info about the idea behind this structured grouping, not a one shot opportunity.
Click to expand...

Well, but I would like to know if I do have common interest. If your goal is to get the P2 a little cheaper than 1000€, than I don't. If your aiming at that announced 550€, than I do. So please tell me, what your idea is: telling panasonic we buy at 550€ or asking them for a little rebate on that 1000€ price tag.
 
First, we would need to open the discussion with Pana, and being a significant group is MANDATORY, a group clearly defined with a goal.

Yes, the 550€ VIDEOPLUS story is an opportunity for us to initiate questions about their "somehow wild and monopolistic" pricing attitude.
It reveals 2 things:
- A lack of pricing consistency
- An extraordinary freedom of price given to resellers.

So, yes, asking a sort of "coupon" or discount operation thru their usual dealers network would be something fair for those investing on Pana, and we did not get the chance to catch a 550€.

But, again, this group buy is not a one shot opportunity, User Group allows manufacturers to be properly addressed by their end-user customers.
 
The idea is to show them there is a strong base. The price is secondary in this stage.
Still I am also not considering the P2 fro 1.000. The price is simply way over the top at this point of the camera´s lifecycle. The camera was released a year ago with the promise to bring higher capacities. Panasonic has not been able to deliver those capacities. Probably because they are not able to empty their storeroom for the introductionprice. I am sure for 550 they will sell a load of cards. And if we get 10% off that - fine. For me this DVXuser group that JennyinParis wants to start is not only about getting better prices. It is about telling Panasonic Europe there are endcustomers they should be aware off. If the HVX had not variable framerates I would not consider it at all, because it is a Panasonic product. In Europe that is a problem for small producers. SONY and Canon are strong with all my competitors. Panasonic makes great products, but in Europe you better think twice before you buy into their system. I want to change that and maybe this group helps.
 
In the other thread the Aussies mentioned a "buy one, get one free" offer from Panasonic Australia. What a great idea that would be. Even buying 2*4GB cards and getting 2 free would be a good deal if Panasnic needs to keep the price (artificial) "high".
 
I find this another smart way of asking Panasonic to propose a discount based on the second for free.
(Doubling the card quantity, too, thus a more volume operation for Pana).

Please, participate to get the longest list, it is free.
It could cost me one day/travel expense, if the list worth it and represents something, when contacting the person at Pana Europe, possibly asking for a meeting.
 
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****DVXuser Policy Statement****

****DVXuser Policy Statement****

****DVXuser Policy Statement****

While we are allowing users to discuss a group purchase of P2 cards, DVXuser.com has no connection to such a deal, and does not officially endorse this deal. It is completely up to users to protect their own financial interests--just as with any transaction on this board. DVXuser.com has no connection to and assumes no responsibility for private user transactions--which describes this deal. No user may represent themself as an official agent of DVXuser.com without Jarred Land's express written permission. For this purchase, users may not represent DVXuser to Panasonic or any private dealer.

We have asked Jennyparis to let us review any deal before money changes hands, and to clearly demonstrate that users's funds are being safeguarded, but we still view any deal as a private transaction unaffiliated with DVXuser.com and we assume no responsibility for such a transaction. Thanks.
 
Hi Folks,

I don't want to put a damper on this but I really do not believe that Panasonic would be interested in supporting this sale on a direct basis, regardless of country. I know we would not support this in the US, it is why we have a dealer network. It would be way to costly to ship these individually and track them. Frankly I think of the trouble we have in dealing with rebates and it is a killer. My suggestion for you all is not that the idea is bad, but find a vendor that is a Panasonic vendor and have them support your group with a group purchase.

Best regards,

Jan
 
Jenny,
sorry for the late reply but we're busy with the fashion shows in Milan...

I just asked Videoplus by mail and by phone to let us know when and how to get the card. So you mean that they're not selling them yet, they just take reservations for the new price? I have friends in Paris that can buy it for us and ship to Milan.

Anyway beside that, I think that talking to Pana as a buyer group is at least interesting and it can be a consumer "pressure" group to push'em to change their policy.
About 15 years ago I got a flight to NY to buy a Silicon Graphics workstation 'cause in Europe was 40% more. The night before coming back to Italy I got a call in my hotel room in the morning (sunday!) from SGI Europe telling me that I shouldn't do this and that...I just answered: " So what? You wanted a globalized market? So we are global consumer: I buy wherever I want, bye!" That was great, a real consumer satisfaction. Back in Italy SGI Italy was really upset, but they couldn't do anything. A year after they dropped the price...

Just another little example. We do consume a lot of DVDs for clients. A year ago we were paying 2 euro each one. Now we buy online 0.38 euro...Verabatim printable...

Do we need any kind of online or on site support that justify a p2 8GB 1200/1300 euro??

Take care all!

rap
 
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Jan_Crittenden said:
Hi Folks,

I don't want to put a damper on this but I really do not believe that Panasonic would be interested in supporting this sale on a direct basis, regardless of country. I know we would not support this in the US, it is why we have a dealer network. It would be way to costly to ship these individually and track them. Frankly I think of the trouble we have in dealing with rebates and it is a killer. My suggestion for you all is not that the idea is bad, but find a vendor that is a Panasonic vendor and have them support your group with a group purchase.

Best regards,

Jan
Click to expand...
Jan,

it has never been question to even thinking about such a thing.
Being grouped together, around our common interest, properly organized and structured is name a vanilla User Group, and we won't re-invent the wheel.

A User Group is a well-known structure to send a feedback to manufacturer, Panasonic, or others.
Someone representing 100/200/300/... customers with comments or request is worth listening, and studying a way to satisfy a well-grounded discount THROUGH THE USUAL DISTRIBUTION is something very common.

Why, where, who said we expect a direct sale from Panasonic?
Do you build your post on speculations?
Does my name is not visible enough for you to ask me any questions in respect of the work I try to do for the group?
Are you able of BUILDING A DIALOG with us, a group of loyal buyers/customers?

A dealer already initiated a constructed dialog with me by PM, can we expect a constructive dialog with you Panasonic?
 
Jennyparis said:
Jan,

it has never been question to even thinking about such a thing.
Being grouped together, around our common interest, properly organized and structured is name a vanilla User Group, and we won't re-invent the wheel.

A User Group is a well-known structure to send a feedback to manufacturer, Panasonic, or others.
Someone representing 100/200/300/... customers with comments or request is worth listening, and studying a way to satisfy a well-grounded discount THROUGH THE USUAL DISTRIBUTION is something very common.

Why, where, who said we expect a direct sale from Panasonic?
Do you build your post on speculations?
Does my name is not visible enough for you to ask me any questions in respect of the work I try to do for the group?
Are you able of BUILDING A DIALOG with us, a group of loyal buyers/customers?

A dealer already initiated a constructed dialog with me by PM, can we expect a constructive dialog with you Panasonic?
Click to expand...
She just did!

And did so with tact and grace!


The best bet is for 2 blocks of buying groups.

1 Euro
2 USA

And of Course Canada Could be a third if enough volume.


To ask the Manufacturer to undercut it's dealer network on such a paltry short term sale is ludicrous and counter productive even if it were for 1000 cards.

The deals will be most effectively struck with AUTHORIZED PANASONIC DEALERS and should be done vis a vis a group discount code.

There can be a window of 2-3 weeks were anyone interested can buy in and send the selected AUTHORIZED PANASONIC DEALER payment with the pertinent group discount code.

Direct Payment, Direct Ship, no fuss, no muss. All Safe and Sound!

This is a win win for everyone.


Don't get me wrong. You are certainly to be admired for your drive and energy. But, short of becoming an AUTHORIZED PANASONIC DEALER yourself, the above mentioned path affords the most feasible and solid route for all involved.

All the Best!

~Estebe
 
Thank you, Estebe. (Please add your name to the list!)

Yes, you outlined something realistic, safe & serious.
We have a big strength in growing as a GLOBAL group (US/Can, Europe), that is, the same User Group representative talking with Pana US/Dealers & Pana Europe/Dealers in an homogeneous way, and cumulating our members.

You forgot to mention an important feature: It is recurrent grouping, it could useful for current 8Gig, upcoming 16Gig, Future 32/64/128Gig...
And building some ties with Pana (US & Europe) for a dialog when our members base express a concern.

Even if someone has no plan to buy a P2 tomorrow, he will probably wish to buy a P2 in the next future, and he wil lbe interested in an upcoming capacity.
So, by joining you help us grow the group, and we do the job for you, it is such a simple thing to do. Add your name.

You are not in "Pirates of the Carribean's" :)-) but in a serious, good willingness, practical approach project to unite ourself to talk in one voice and save our bucks. Free membership.
 
Like a lot of subscribers, I have taken great interest in this 'movement' (for want of a better word) and I agree fully with what you are trying to achieve, I think it is in everyones interests to at least halve the cost of P2.

Having read all the threads and posts, its worth pointing out that there are some strongly worded posts being made and this movement is taking the form of a critical attack on Panasonic and their policies - the very people you are about to approach with a massive request.

JennyParis, with respect, your responses to dealers and now Jan are coming across as confrontational, defensive and aggressive. This is probably a language barrier issue but nevertheless, you are putting yourself up as the representative of a large number of people.
 
No, Richard, a dealer sent me a very nice and constructive PM, to collaborate with this project.
Okay, it could be read this way, but the grounds are of a good nature.
After expressing this project for a group, NO ONE asked me the least question before posting assumptions.
We are loyal with Panasonic! They got our bucks!
Defensive? Yes, am defending end-users interest, up to getting a nice mutual understanding.
Confrontational? Claiming that we plan a direct buy, as Panasonic, yes, we could think they are not with us, but, sure they are with us!
Aggressive? Sorry I forgot the flowers and ribbons (but I accept flowers), a little provocative.... mYes, a little. But smiling, don't over interpret words, it won't reflect my personality, at all.
We try here a generous approach between Panasonic, dealers and prosumers, not a fight at all!
Please Richard, add your name!
 
The confrontational attitude really isn't helping anything.

Here's the simple bottom line: Panasonic will not sell directly to any user group. They will not circumvent their dealers. "Approaching" Panasonic directly will not result in any sales.

Are P2 prices going to plummet? Yes, by design, that is exactly what will happen, whether a user group approaches them or not. When, is the question, but card prices should fall in half every year to 18 months according to Moore's Law. The 8GB card has followed that; it was $2200 one year ago and is $1200 today, and is poised to fall again very soon if the rumors from Europe are to be believed.

What you have the ability to do is express your wishes to Panasonic, although expecting that to have some movement on the market is a bit naive. There are something like 40,000 or 50,000 HVXs out there, which means there are already something like 40,000 to 50,000 owners, and every one of them wants the price to come down. Everyone knows that, everyone from Panasonic knows that. They've staked their entire future on this P2 concept, and they know that it's a far better system than tape or disc, and they KNOW that the only resistance anyone has is the current price point (and limited capacity). This isn't rocket science, they know this intimately. If banding together as a group and complaining makes you feel good, go ahead, but -- in effect you're duplicating what this forum already is. This forum is 30,000+ members or so, and not one of us is happy about the current state of card pricing. We all want 128GB cards today, and we all want them for $100 or less. We live with the current card pricing because we're making buckets of money using the system (see the "who's paid off their HVX" thread for examples) but who wouldn't want something for less? We all do. And they know that.

Where you have the ability to affect pricing is to negotiate directly with a dealer. Panasonic will not deal with you no matter how large your group gets. But dealers will. Target your efforts intelligently and you may have a chance to effect something good for the membership here.
 
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