Overhead rigging for locations?

David G. Smith

David G. Smith

Steak Knife Member
Ok, I am looking at shooting on location in residences with normal (8 to 10 feet) ceilings. I want to be able to place light weight (5 lbs or so) lighting units over the heads of the talent. I won't be in places with drop ceilings and I do not want to try and tape light units directly to the ceiling. What I am thinking of doing is getting a length of steel pipe, about 10 feet in length and of a diameter that will fit into a grip head and run it off of a stand behind the camera. With this I can clip lights to it with super clamps and what not, and put them overhead. What do I need to take into consideration, and anyone have any suggestions on a system like this? What diameter pipe should I get? I need pipe that has very little flex, so does anybody have any suggestions on this? Any thoughts on the need for a counter weight and any suggestions on the best way to do this?

Thank you.
 
What's the largest stand you have access to? When you say grip head, are we talking about a C stand or an overhead stand with a large 4.5" head?

I should add that regardless of this, there isn't anything you can fit directly into a grip head and then arm out 10 feet. You'll need some other hardware to accomplish this.
 
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In the past I have considered doing something similar, I would also like lights from up high.. But the only difference is I wanted to use 2 stands for support. This may be problematic depending on the shot coverage needed. I haven't tried it (budget) but it seems easier to configure, not to mention safer.
 
snipe2k5 said:
In the past I have considered doing something similar, I would also like lights from up high.. But the only difference is I wanted to use 2 stands for support. This may be problematic depending on the shot coverage needed. I haven't tried it (budget) but it seems easier to configure, not to mention safer.
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You could do a number of things using two stands. Assuming you have two overhead stands, or even C stands really, you could put a cardi or studded C into the knuckles and use them to bite the ends of a number of things. 2x4, 2x6, speedrail, square steel tubing, anything really. You can also buy dedicated hardware to hold specific types of support. If you go with wood or speedrail, you can extend the length past the maximum length of any of those products that it's possible to buy by getting a set of over/unders that let you connect two pieces together mid-span.

Norms and Modern have everything you could possibly need for rigging something like this.
 
Moseph said:
What's the largest stand you have access to? When you say grip head, are we talking about a C stand or an overhead stand with a large 4.5" head?

I should add that regardless of this, there isn't anything you can fit directly into a grip head and then arm out 10 feet. You'll need some other hardware to accomplish this.
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Yeah, a C-stand, or beefy light stand with a Matthews-type standard grip head. Getting the height and having heavy duty stands aren't really a problem. And, I have plenty of sandbags.

legrevedotcom said:
I've never tried, but couldn't these:
http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-manfrotto-mn032-autopole-silver/p1012668

be rigged horisontally as long as the lamp is light weight? If you get someone to help you stretch it out while you lock it in I bet that could sit pretty tight. Then a superclamp with a spigot for attaching the lamp.
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Yeah, I don't trust the auto poles. I have used a cheap one in the past, I think it was part of a Lowell kit, and I don't think they would work for overhead rigging. Think spring loaded shower curtain rod....

snipe2k5 said:
In the past I have considered doing something similar, I would also like lights from up high.. But the only difference is I wanted to use 2 stands for support. This may be problematic depending on the shot coverage needed. I haven't tried it (budget) but it seems easier to configure, not to mention safer.
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Hiding the support stands during coverage is the issue I want to avoid. If I can figure out how to do it with one stand and one overhead pipe, I can basically move the rig around in a 360 degree circle, with the light center as the pivot point and the stand set up always behind the camera and get coverage as I see fit. I figure a 10 foot length so that I can go out 5 to 8 feet from the camera and have enough pole out the back end to counterweight it. I think I will try a 1/2 inch pipe... looks like a trip to Home Depot is in my future....
 
+1 for C-stands, you can build almost everything with them and a few sandbags.

Don't like the polecats ether, broke a hole into a wall last month, by tightening them too much. Expensive lesson, never again.

Frank
 
David,

1.25" sch40 aluminum pipe should do nicely. This is a common size for speedrail fittings and is 1.625" OD since pipe is measured by the ID. Superclamps will fit this diameter just fine so that would work fine for hanging your fixtures. If you are using C-stands and some type of grip-head or similar for the pivot, I think you will be wanting to counterbalance.

Note that many C-stands with gripheads come with a 40" extension rod, is that enough? If so, problem solved.

Grant
 
I think you're looking to build a small menace arm (boom). Don't really cost you much to rent, and you can boom it out a nice distance. Speak to your key grip first though, preferably have a grip there that knows how to make one.

If you don't have access to that, you can pick up two overhead stands, and have some speedrail going across the roof, just clamp it there
 
Agree with the above post, a menace arm would do best. Although they're really meant to be used with large grip heads, I don't see why it couldn't fit into a smaller grip head as long as you have it on a decent stand to support the rig. I wouldn't use a C stand, you want something with a wider base.

1/2" pipe really isn't enough. This is basically what C stand arms are made of and I won't use those to arm out anything more than a 650. If a menace arm is overkill for the lights you plan on arming out, you can also get pipe holders for smaller sizes such as 3/4" or 1" (round or square).
 
another vote for c-stand with sandbags. that been my way around for years. never had an issue. though ive never flown anything bigger than say a 1k arri or 4' 4-bank kino
 
This requirement is so common for us theatre and events people, we forget others don't realise it's not that difficult. We've also had many close scrapes safety wise, so have established things that work and things that are bad.

Stands - it's essential you only support things up in the air on stands capable of doing the job properly - and they need to be VERY tough. Lightweight and cheap are not an option.
Oddly - in our industry, the most popular is actually made by manfrotto
http://www.manfrotto.co.uk/wind-up-with-safety-release-cable
a41ab3fc7d4e4ca68b18980de4d90436.jpg
We very rarely use a single tube now. Steel is far too heavy, and aluminium sags with weight in the middle. We use lightweight ali truss that joins together to get the lengths you want, and is so much stronger and much lighter than a single tube.
Lightweight ladder truss like this kind of range.
http://www.prolyte.com/litestructures/decorative-truss/truss
The ladder style stuff can also be sourced from the mobile disco type companies
American_DJ_Dura_Truss_System.jpg
- and if you don't need exceptional weight capability it's fine. There are lots of firms that sell truss and stands, but the critical factor with these is safety. As in it cannot be accidentally knocked over - plus making sure that you can get to it safely and not have to balance on chairs and steps too much! The stands I linked to are wind up types - so you attaché the truss low, then with one person each end, you simply wind them up. You can get manual versions too that are cheaper. If they're too expensive, I'd suggest hiring from your local events lighting company. Bodging it with a bit of pipe is fine - but they're top heavy very tricky to transport and usually not that safe in use.
 
I'd use a proper menace arm mounted on a medium roller, hi-roller, or a combo stand fitted with wheels, & 4.5" grip head.

The beefier rig is much safer (Priority #1), & the wheels will make it quicker to relocate.
 
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And, of course, Matthews Studio Equipment has the ULTIMATE answer!! A tad out of my price range, but for future reference I am going to check and see if they are rented locally if I need this much support. A cool device.

The MAX Menace arm:


 
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I've become a big fan of steel Beefy Babies - about the same $$ as a turtle base c-stand kit (about $215 vs $190) but waaay tougher and much harder to tip over. I also have a couple aluminum-post ones, they're lightweight but not as butch as the steel ones.

I'm about to order some maxi steel stands and try them - their specs are great (25 lbs. load) and they're about $86.
 
Michael Carter said:
I've become a big fan of steel Beefy Babies - about the same $$ as a turtle base c-stand kit (about $215 vs $190) but waaay tougher and much harder to tip over. I also have a couple aluminum-post ones, they're lightweight but not as butch as the steel ones.

I'm about to order some maxi steel stands and try them - their specs are great (25 lbs. load) and they're about $86.
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9'6" and 25lbs... for $86.00, I like that a lot. Thanks.
 
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