SHORT: Our very first short: Residual
- Thread starter jhero
- Start date
you use other sounds beside music, that's good. It brings you more into the scene, into the character...
the steps are Foley ? I don't hear other crew-steps....
the shot from behind the window is nice, but I would delete the shot after and let her enter directly
now for me she enters an other shop/store
mirrors....and reflections....always fun... whas that you ?
I find it a bit "dark" as in "dusty"... It's because of the compression or to much "film-effect" ?
Suddenly the "ambience sound" stops... any raison ? Nothing is happening...
01:14 here (and few before) the footsteps don't "feel" sync...
To much music in it....I just fast forwarded it...heared a distorted screaming somewhere....
It started good...But... to much music....not enough other sounds....
the steps are Foley ? I don't hear other crew-steps....
the shot from behind the window is nice, but I would delete the shot after and let her enter directly
now for me she enters an other shop/store
mirrors....and reflections....always fun... whas that you ?
I find it a bit "dark" as in "dusty"... It's because of the compression or to much "film-effect" ?
Suddenly the "ambience sound" stops... any raison ? Nothing is happening...
01:14 here (and few before) the footsteps don't "feel" sync...
To much music in it....I just fast forwarded it...heared a distorted screaming somewhere....
It started good...But... to much music....not enough other sounds....
Thanks for posting this. Hmm, wondering how to review this best.
First impressions, it reminded me of Zak's work, and a little vibe of "Drive". Second impressions, no, it's different, possibly better. There's a remarked assuredness for a first film that I rarely see, and more importantly a use of formalism without pretense. Some of my favorite film makers use a slow rhythm to lull the audience, to seduce them into caring and that's what I think you were trying to achieve. But, you didn't get there unfortunately, imho (more on that later). The fact you went for it is so commendable and shows great promise. Why ? Because I felt like you thought about what every shot meant (advice I have to give too often) and didn't rely on unnecessary narrative or surprise endings. There was also a natural rhythm with your actress. And you thought about composition. For example, the use of a graphic in the background at the cafe' was spot on... furthermore, I dug some of your framing choices, camera movement. I love when you intro'd her audio during the denoument. Befitting title; pregnant with meaning. Those are all the props.
Why I don't think you ultimately succeeded was a function of a number of things. As an audience member we have to care, to engage. There's a variety of ways to accomplish that task, but you didn't make us care about her before she left the hotel. I could give examples of ways to do that (but don't want to rewrite your piece). Suffice it to say, you have to either drop in some subtext, or have the visuals carry the narrative weight. There wasn't enough of that, imho. Moreover, your running time was too long (in the beginning). Even though you paid attention to the details of framing, composition etc., I think you could have looked at trimming or introducing her already in the hotel room. You asked why you chose that shot, but not how you could condense and convey the story more efficiently.
Technically, I didn't like the milky cg. Macregor does some cool milky cg, so maybe check some of his threads for tips ? The transition at 12:11-12:15 needs a re-edit. You reached a crescendo at 14:30 or 14:35; there was some redundancy between then and the 17:00 mark. Your use of music was great in the very beginning and end, but between the escalator and exiting the cafe; it seemed obtrusive. I dug the music so much though; I wrote down some of the artists. Who knows ? I may contact them for some of my projects.
You asked a lot of your actress. She both succeeded and failed. All the footy before the cafe; I didn't get the emotional journey she was on. Part of that might have been direction (your fault
) or you didn't write in enough nuanced emotional states to make us engage with her. Either way, she needed more material to work with, and/or more process to show it. For the cafe' onwards ? Wow. She has amazing potential. Trust me, I can spot it. She reminds me a little bit of Julie Delpy, a smile that hides a unique vulnerability. To see her transform at the elevator was impressive. There didn't seem to be one phony moment in her performance from then on (not that there was prior to, but when you ramp up the emotion it can swerve into that territory). Your shot choice, music and her acting from that moment on were well worth waiting for. I hope she keeps acting because what she has you can't teach.
For a first film...naww, for any short film, you show great potential, nuance (in direction and story selection) and a nascent deft touch. Good luck, mate.
Cheers
PS - Were you inspired by Drive ? What was your inspiration for this piece ?
First impressions, it reminded me of Zak's work, and a little vibe of "Drive". Second impressions, no, it's different, possibly better. There's a remarked assuredness for a first film that I rarely see, and more importantly a use of formalism without pretense. Some of my favorite film makers use a slow rhythm to lull the audience, to seduce them into caring and that's what I think you were trying to achieve. But, you didn't get there unfortunately, imho (more on that later). The fact you went for it is so commendable and shows great promise. Why ? Because I felt like you thought about what every shot meant (advice I have to give too often) and didn't rely on unnecessary narrative or surprise endings. There was also a natural rhythm with your actress. And you thought about composition. For example, the use of a graphic in the background at the cafe' was spot on... furthermore, I dug some of your framing choices, camera movement. I love when you intro'd her audio during the denoument. Befitting title; pregnant with meaning. Those are all the props.
Why I don't think you ultimately succeeded was a function of a number of things. As an audience member we have to care, to engage. There's a variety of ways to accomplish that task, but you didn't make us care about her before she left the hotel. I could give examples of ways to do that (but don't want to rewrite your piece). Suffice it to say, you have to either drop in some subtext, or have the visuals carry the narrative weight. There wasn't enough of that, imho. Moreover, your running time was too long (in the beginning). Even though you paid attention to the details of framing, composition etc., I think you could have looked at trimming or introducing her already in the hotel room. You asked why you chose that shot, but not how you could condense and convey the story more efficiently.
Technically, I didn't like the milky cg. Macregor does some cool milky cg, so maybe check some of his threads for tips ? The transition at 12:11-12:15 needs a re-edit. You reached a crescendo at 14:30 or 14:35; there was some redundancy between then and the 17:00 mark. Your use of music was great in the very beginning and end, but between the escalator and exiting the cafe; it seemed obtrusive. I dug the music so much though; I wrote down some of the artists. Who knows ? I may contact them for some of my projects.
You asked a lot of your actress. She both succeeded and failed. All the footy before the cafe; I didn't get the emotional journey she was on. Part of that might have been direction (your fault
) or you didn't write in enough nuanced emotional states to make us engage with her. Either way, she needed more material to work with, and/or more process to show it. For the cafe' onwards ? Wow. She has amazing potential. Trust me, I can spot it. She reminds me a little bit of Julie Delpy, a smile that hides a unique vulnerability. To see her transform at the elevator was impressive. There didn't seem to be one phony moment in her performance from then on (not that there was prior to, but when you ramp up the emotion it can swerve into that territory). Your shot choice, music and her acting from that moment on were well worth waiting for. I hope she keeps acting because what she has you can't teach. For a first film...naww, for any short film, you show great potential, nuance (in direction and story selection) and a nascent deft touch. Good luck, mate.
Cheers
PS - Were you inspired by Drive ? What was your inspiration for this piece ?
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I watched it again and I still don't like lot's of music in films
But other things like framing, shots in mirror, pannings where good.
Another thing I also want to mention/tell/say (don't know which word to use): even if a composer spent 544434343413043434 years to compose 10 seconds
of music. If you thing "naah, it's not what I want"...well...just say "naaah, it's not what I want".
Also, try not to use music "on" a scene, but "in" a scene. Music is not something that HAS to be dropped on everything else (of sound). Music has to be mixed/waved
into the other sounds. If a music-band makes you a song that you can use, well you don't make a film to promote their song. They make a song that fits into your
film. So you're not obligated to you use it 100% of the time. (and know replace everything with "if you would...")
And remember: Kill your darlings:
Even if you spent 543434384834384834 lightyears to make a certain shot, but in the edit you see it doesn't fit or it's only good for 10 seconds... Well...then it is.
And yes I know I use weird numbers, but it's because I like to do that.
But other things like framing, shots in mirror, pannings where good.
Another thing I also want to mention/tell/say (don't know which word to use
): even if a composer spent 544434343413043434 years to compose 10 seconds of music. If you thing "naah, it's not what I want"...well...just say "naaah, it's not what I want".
Also, try not to use music "on" a scene, but "in" a scene. Music is not something that HAS to be dropped on everything else (of sound). Music has to be mixed/waved
into the other sounds. If a music-band makes you a song that you can use, well you don't make a film to promote their song. They make a song that fits into your
film. So you're not obligated to you use it 100% of the time. (and know replace everything with "if you would...")
And remember: Kill your darlings:
Even if you spent 543434384834384834 lightyears to make a certain shot, but in the edit you see it doesn't fit or it's only good for 10 seconds... Well...then it is.
And yes I know I use weird numbers, but it's because I like to do that.
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I watched it again and I still don't like lot's of music in films
Sometimes, I'd agree. Some films become akin to music videos. They hide their story flaws with crappy music. Not to speak for the film maker, but it looks to me that with this piece he used the music to serve a purpose thematically. By keeping her audio out until the denoument; he's trying to make a statement about fantasy vs. reality, her expectations vs her result. Unfortunately, I think his choice in music was too dramatic or too on the nose in some spots in the middle. Conversely, the beginning and the end he nailed the tone and emotional tenor, imho. If he did that throughout, it may allay your concerns. Or maybe not.
Have you seen Drive ? They use 80's music in a similar way to elucidate Ryan Gosling's character. Some may say, why did they use so much music ? - because it was a story device to underline his character's arc (and beliefs).
I could be wrong about this film maker's intentions, though.
Generally, i agree about mixing music properly unless there's a reason for leaving out ambient sounds.
Cheers.
edit : You make some great suggestions but after watching it again, I really do think it was a purposeful choice not to use ambient sounds from when she gets on the fur coat, to leaving the cafe ' - that's her fantasy/expectation part of the piece. You might be right about a subtler mixing in some spots, helping highlight that. For me, the very beginning before the escalator, and from the elevator onwards works great (but I'm not a mixer so). Thanks for getting me to listen to it again. Maybe he can do two versions, and then we pick, haha. Or he could just hire you! Your advice is always valuable.
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Yes, but there's a difference between: ONLY music
OR: music AND other sounds (ambience, dialogue, even breathings can be seen as "dialogue").
And it's also a personal taste that comes in yes. But as I'm also a viewer, and it's better to get "straight, to the point" answers rather then having someone saying "yeah very nice, only
because he/she is a friend or your grand-mother and just likes you, I think I can also give "personal" thoughts.
So to recapitulate: - music is good
- music used to hide mistakes during shooting and only have music and no other sounds that can be found = not good
- personally I'm not a big fan of 100% fully dropped with music films
- other things like framing, light, set dressing etc where done very well (I'm not the booooooooo guy)
- don't use music ON top of a film so that it eats all the rest of the sound, but mix it in.
- kill your darlings, if music is not needed...it's not needed...even if you spent 5444530540343433 years on it
or even if friends spent centuries on it and are going to kill you (just shoot them first)
But this was just general, not particular for this film.
OR: music AND other sounds (ambience, dialogue, even breathings can be seen as "dialogue").
And it's also a personal taste that comes in yes. But as I'm also a viewer, and it's better to get "straight, to the point" answers rather then having someone saying "yeah very nice, only
because he/she is a friend or your grand-mother and just likes you, I think I can also give "personal" thoughts.
So to recapitulate: - music is good
- music used to hide mistakes during shooting and only have music and no other sounds that can be found = not good
- personally I'm not a big fan of 100% fully dropped with music films
- other things like framing, light, set dressing etc where done very well (I'm not the booooooooo guy
)- don't use music ON top of a film so that it eats all the rest of the sound, but mix it in.
- kill your darlings, if music is not needed...it's not needed...even if you spent 5444530540343433 years on it
or even if friends spent centuries on it and are going to kill you (just shoot them first
)But this was just general, not particular for this film.
My friends! Thank you for all this feedback! As someone that has solely come from a background in music videos and corporate work, I am truly happy to be reading these encouraging comments.
A little back story:
From initial concept to meeting our actress to day of shoot was about a week. As our actress was only in town for a day (from VFS), we set out to film everything in a day. We were a crew of 3. D_and_G, we crafted the story in terms of what she wanted to portray to the audience. She wanted a wide gamut of emotions and so we set out to do just that. In terms of filming style, personally as part camera operator and editor I did draw inspiration from Drive. Nice eye! One of the reasons why some of the shots might have felt overly long was because yes, we were trying to draw the audience in slowly, lure them into the world of Carmen.
dre83, yes, I will admit that sound was something we totally did not hit on the head. We were so focused on crafting the story and getting the cinematography to a high level that sound escaped us. We've definitely since then learned from that and our next short will certainly improve on that.
All in all, this was a great experience for us (no formal training) - but at the end of the day it seems that we'll have to watch out at how our choice and placement of music affects the story. But don't be fooled, all the music was chosen with its specific intent in mind, perhaps how we mixed them could have been better. So in that sense, you are correct D_and_G.
Any stabs in the dark on the title?
A little back story:
From initial concept to meeting our actress to day of shoot was about a week. As our actress was only in town for a day (from VFS), we set out to film everything in a day. We were a crew of 3. D_and_G, we crafted the story in terms of what she wanted to portray to the audience. She wanted a wide gamut of emotions and so we set out to do just that. In terms of filming style, personally as part camera operator and editor I did draw inspiration from Drive. Nice eye! One of the reasons why some of the shots might have felt overly long was because yes, we were trying to draw the audience in slowly, lure them into the world of Carmen.
dre83, yes, I will admit that sound was something we totally did not hit on the head. We were so focused on crafting the story and getting the cinematography to a high level that sound escaped us. We've definitely since then learned from that and our next short will certainly improve on that.
All in all, this was a great experience for us (no formal training) - but at the end of the day it seems that we'll have to watch out at how our choice and placement of music affects the story. But don't be fooled, all the music was chosen with its specific intent in mind, perhaps how we mixed them could have been better. So in that sense, you are correct D_and_G.
Any stabs in the dark on the title?
That's interesting. You and Zak should talk, haha. She definitely got some good material (as mentioned her acting stood out after the cafe'). My only contention would be you have to draw the audience in to make us care about her being happy, contemplative etc. in the beginning with visual questions or subtext.
Any stabs in the dark on the title?
It could mean a lot of things, which is why I like it (and the fact it's not trying to be sensational & flashy)
First impressions were it was relating to the residuals of a relationship, items in the relationship (jacket, dress), left-over expectations when one person moves on and the other doesn't. The main first impression was it was the residual of emotions (especially at the end when she's finished crying). You're probably going to tell me I'm all wet, and she's an assassin code-named residual
Good luck with everything.
Cheers
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So the actress was kind a directing herself ?
But anyway directing yourself is far from easy. You don't have "a look" of yourself in the general setting.
If you like I can do some sound editing/mixing on it. I'll just need the video file (mov file H264 is ok) and
an OMF or AAF for the sound tracks.
If you're like "huuuu ???????? OMF ???? AAF ????" It's "export" (somewhere in "File") or "export audio" then "OMF" then
handles = 20seconds, NO panning (so that everything is set in the middle).
But anyway directing yourself is far from easy. You don't have "a look" of yourself in the general setting.
If you like I can do some sound editing/mixing on it. I'll just need the video file (mov file H264 is ok) and
an OMF or AAF for the sound tracks.
If you're like "huuuu ???????? OMF ???? AAF ????" It's "export" (somewhere in "File") or "export audio" then "OMF" then
handles = 20seconds, NO panning (so that everything is set in the middle).
It would be interesting to hear their process on set. Who did what, how complete a script they were working from etc.
Everybody should direct themselves at least once We'd have a lot better short films/features if they did. Also, directors would know what it felt like to be an actor.
Everybody should direct themselves at least once
We'd have a lot better short films/features if they did. Also, directors would know what it felt like to be an actor.I'll have to pull the footage/audio from a stored drive
It would be interesting to hear their process on set. Who did what, how complete a script they were working from etc.
Everybody should direct themselves at least once
We were lucky that our main director had a previous experience as acting so that helped quite a bit. In terms of preparation, we had the general story line complete in our heads before the shoot. On the day of the shoot however, some things were changed and we had to think and act on our feet based on the conditions and the setting we were placed in. For example, the whole hotel setting was planned for before hand, but we had no idea what room we would be given until that day. We frequented the cafe before hand so that wasn't an issue.
But generally, all three of us were DPs and camera ops on the day of the shoot. We followed our script but weren't afraid to deviate a little off if it meant getting a great shot (not originally planned for). Our actress was amazing to work with, the shot from entering the hotel, passing through the fire, elevator, to her room, to the whole balcony scene was one take. We gave her the emotion we were striving for and she took it and ran away with it. She required little direction
Indeed we did, but even up to and on the day of the shoot we kept changing things around because that's exactly what we wanted from Residual. A short that anyone can relate to and their own interp/back story. We wanted to avoid the spoon feeding technique
We had a couple of tripods, couple monopods, arri light set, couple of 60D's, zeiss 21mm, 35mm, 50mm, 100mm
We had a couple of tripods, couple monopods, arri light set, couple of 60D's, zeiss 21mm, 35mm, 50mm, 100mm
Indeed we did, but even up to and on the day of the shoot we kept changing things around because that's exactly what we wanted from Residual. A short that anyone can relate to and their own interp/back story. We wanted to avoid the spoon feeding technique
I think you misunderstood me. It was a ?, not a criticism...but no matter.
Backstory need not ever hit the screen. The viewer never need be aware of it - but the actress is.
Anyway, I was just curious to your method. Thanks for answering. This film was a commendable effort. edit : Thanks for being cool with my suggestions etc.
Good luck with your future endeavors.
Cheers.
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