Our DP loves natural light... a lot.

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Dfewer

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Fade in:

Long story short, the end.

Wait, hold on, let's start over.

So I'm gaffing for a a low budget indie short. This is my first experience shooting with a 5D, and I have been amazed at the low light and shallow DoF capabilities. We spend months planning the shoot down to each detail. The first shot rolls around, we set up. The weather is cloudy, but the scene calls for a sunny day and cheerful mood. I start to bring out the Arri 650 for some rimlight action. "No." says the DP. "it will look fake." "Oh", I said, unsure of what else to say "ok." I finally go grab a reflector and add some fill in the MS and CUs. The actors are well exposed, but there's no rimlight and it looks, well, overcast (maybe color correction can help?).

[Several shots later]

The director wants a POV. So the DP picks up the camera and tries out the shoulder braced setup. "It doesn't feel right." He proceeds to take off the brace and hold the camera with his hands. Ok, well, it's POV. The next shot, he does the same, the director just sort says "ok yeah sure" which apparently meant use hand held shots for everything from this moment on. Since then, the DP has hand held literally 90% of the shots on our slow paced love/drama. I don't know, I guess I must be a hack if I don't see the logic in using hand held footage, even while walking with a 1.4f lens on a CMOS sensor without a field monitor or focus markers of any kind.

Then the fun really starts. INT. Bedroom. We are shooting against a window. I go to close the blinds.
"Naw, we don't need to." said the DP.
"The window is too bright." I said.
"Getting highlight is ok." He said.
"The window is completely blown out." I said.
"It's fine, the window shows the outside so everyone knows its supposed to be blown out, ya know?" He said.
I said nothing.
I go set up a light and add more key in an attempt to reduce overall contrast. "Naw," he says "now it looks lit."

We go to do a shot where an actor opens a big cardboard box and sets a chest of old playthings inside the box. The director wants to put the camera inside the box so the camera looks straight up as the chest is lowered into the box. I bring a portable light to put in the box pointing up to light the chest and actor's face as he leans over the box. "No no, we can't do that, it's not motivated, people will wonder why there is light inside the box." Fair point I suppose, as I wonder how then we are supposed to see more than a silhouette on the actor. He puts the camera in the box and takes a test shot. Too dark. I bring a reflector over and bounce some light from the side of the actor. "Naw man, light would only come from the ceiling lights." We exchange ideas with director and come to an impasse; we decide to come back to the shot later. (by the way, any suggestions of how to light this would be appreciated).

Yet another shot. It is dark, I go to grab light, "Naw man, I got this." He bumps the ISO to 2500.

Now, what confuses me the most is that the DP seems to know all the filmmaking terms and has at least has an extensive knowledge of the technology. I have not seen the dailies on a big screen therefore I can't for certain judge how the shots will look; thus I have perpetually been treating all of the DPs lighting decisions by default as creative choices. I've kept a positive attitude on set even when met with disagreements, worked hard, and had as much fun as a snowball fight on the deck of the titanic. I don't know, am I missing something, or have other people gone through similar situations when working under DPs/Directors?

At first I was worried about what would happen if the DP found out what I wrote, but then I realized that the lighting section is probably the safest place to post this story.

Fade out.
 
What you experienced is very ordinary, i got your point and it's annoying. But IMHO the only problem you had with the DP is the communication problem, probably he had something in his head which is conflicting with yours. Gaffer should have his/her own initiative, and shouldn't ask every single movement to the DP. When i go to set as a DP, the first thing i do is a small meeting with the gaffer about the general lighting technic for the particular project( or if it's a big project like feature probably we already been meeting and discussing this on recce's) Then i just let him to do his own work, mostly i even don't tell a Gaffer what to light in the seen to see if he get me right. If he's doing something totally different than what i thought, then that's where i need to say "nope". Like i said the only problem you had with him was communication problem, he should've tell to you the way he is working and the lighting he wants to create and then everything would be more more easy going. Just my 0.2
 
When he says " That light is unmotivated where is it supposed to be coming from"? say "the same place the background music is coming from". I think Lumiere has the right idea. Just communicate with him on his overall vision.

Some times the things that are frustrating us are keys to understanding where we are headed in the future.
 
When he says " That light is unmotivated where is it supposed to be coming from"? say "the same place the background music is coming from". I think Lumiere has the right idea. Just communicate with him on his overall vision.

Some times the things that are frustrating us are keys to understanding where we are headed in the future.

It is my understanding that quote is from one of David Lynch's DPs, and that, "David didn't laugh"!....

The above DP seems like he has seen "The New World" a tad bit too much... He may be on to something, but if you are not seeing the dailys, IS ANYONE?
 
It is my understanding that quote is from one of David Lynch's DPs, and that, "David didn't laugh"!....

The above DP seems like he has seen "The New World" a tad bit too much... He may be on to something, but if you are not seeing the dailys, IS ANYONE?

I'm a 'natural light' shooter... mainly because my poverty, limiting me on other vices, limits what I can buy in the way of 'pro' lighting.

At the moment though, I don't know that GH-1 I have is 'good' for high ISO values to allow me to shoot in low light conditions, or get as good as I could get with stills in more reasonable
conditions, as again... my poverty has not allowed me to buy a faster lens...

As for "The New World"(2005), my problem was the sluggish pacing of the 'story' of the film... not the use of 'natural light' and high ISO...

On the still side... the Wife use to have a studio and for years we paid for the rental, despite her only using it about 2-5 times a year... then when we ended our lease... all of a sudden... it seemed like every project would have been better done in the studio...

But I will say that 'seeing' potential in location 'natural light' does take some amount of self-training to do.
 
I'm a 'natural light' shooter... mainly because my poverty, limiting me on other vices, limits what I can buy in the way of 'pro' lighting.

At the moment though, I don't know that GH-1 I have is 'good' for high ISO values to allow me to shoot in low light conditions, or get as good as I could get with stills in more reasonable
conditions, as again... my poverty has not allowed me to buy a faster lens...

As for "The New World"(2005), my problem was the sluggish pacing of the 'story' of the film... not the use of 'natural light' and high ISO...

On the still side... the Wife use to have a studio and for years we paid for the rental, despite her only using it about 2-5 times a year... then when we ended our lease... all of a sudden... it seemed like every project would have been better done in the studio...

But I will say that 'seeing' potential in location 'natural light' does take some amount of self-training to do.

Oh I love "The New World". It is beautiful. I was just joking that the above DP might think that he is the next Emmanuel Lubezki ASC, AMC and he doesn't need to light. The problem with that is that Lubezki, does light his movies, he just carefully crafts natural light to his uses. For instance, in the BTS footage of the "The New World", there are shots of crew members chopping holes in the roofs of sets to let in more sky light, and using reflectors and flags. This months AC talks to Lubezki about "Tree of Life", another amazingly beautiful film. He uses natural light, but takes great pains to manipulate it. For instance, the day interiors were shot, mostly, with natural light, but they had three different sets of the house built, each with a different geographic orientation so they could shot scenes in almost any room, at almost anytime of the day. That is not just turing up the ISO on the camera, ya know?
 
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Oh I love "The New World". It is beautiful. I was just joking that the above DP might think that he is the next Emmanuel Lubezki ASC, AMC and he doesn't need to light. The problem with that is that Lubezki, does light his movies, he just carefully crafts natural light to his uses. For instance, in the BTS footage of the "The New World", there are shots of crew members chopping holes in the roofs of sets to let in more sky light, and using reflectors and flags. This months AC talks to Lubezki about "Tree of Life", another amazingly beautiful film. He uses natural light, but takes great pains to manipulate it. For instance, the day interiors were shot, mostly, with natural light, but they had three different sets of the house built, each with a different geographically orientation so they could shot scenes in almost any room, at almost anytime of the day. That is not just turing up the ISO on the camera, ya know?

Wasn't that amazing?! They should have just built one house on a rotating platform. lol... like the Black Maria days.
 
I'll chime in though I am not near experienced with working with ANY crew! Communication is key, as was said.

But...

But even though the 5DMK2 is a fine stills cam and a Low-light can-do camera, I wouldn't consider pushing the ISO to get a 'natch' shot for video OR Stills. While we can get away with using high ISO in stills and then going to post to perfect our issues, What I have noticed is high ISO just softens the image too much for my taste, esp. when you throw in denoising software or plugins...way too soft for my taste...esp. in video. Caveat is, I haven't worked really diligently at trying to make high ISO work in video. I have shot enough Still with my D700 and the Canon to know, I steer clear of higher ISO when possible.

The hat trick of course, is controlling light. it is what we do as photographers and as cinematographers. My personal pref is to use ISO 200 or 400, light the piss out of it, and control that light.

As for the hand-holding, he must just want that effect.
 
Ha, Ha ... exactly. I think they reference the Black Maria in the AC article. I KNOW you read that Ryan.... Shaaaaa!

Read the AC article for Days of Heaven... the gaffer and GnE team were really upset that Nestor Almendros rarely used many lights in the mostly day-exterior film. They sat around and played cards all day. :)

Of course Nestor had some time to shoot magic hour every day for quite awhile.

Sometimes natural light is beautiful and perfect... sometimes it needs to be supplemented, and sometimes it needs to be recreated by unnatural means. It all depends and is based on the DP. Maybe your DP is on their level... maybe he's the worst that has ever been. I guess only the image will tell.
 
...Maybe your DP is on their level... maybe he's the worst that has ever been. I guess only the image will tell.

I'm sure the OP made valiant attempts to help his DP create the best image, but in the end the gaffer answers to the DP, much like the DP answers to the director. If the DP has the idea to shoot natural light in the middle of a dark tunnel (and he turns down your lighting suggestions), you'll need to trust that he knows what he's doing. The dailies will reveal his brilliance or failure, but it is the DP's place to showcase either.
 
realis-tic doesnt mean real

realis-tic doesnt mean real

I'm a total lighting amateur, but this does make me think of something an art teacher once told me-

"It doesn't need to be real. It needs to be convincing"
 
Read the AC article for Days of Heaven... the gaffer and GnE team were really upset that Nestor Almendros rarely used many lights in the mostly day-exterior film. They sat around and played cards all day. :)

Of course Nestor had some time to shoot magic hour every day for quite awhile.

Sometimes natural light is beautiful and perfect... sometimes it needs to be supplemented, and sometimes it needs to be recreated by unnatural means. It all depends and is based on the DP. Maybe your DP is on their level... maybe he's the worst that has ever been. I guess only the image will tell.

Oh yeah, I forgot about your great AC collection. I do love me some Nestor Almendros. His work with Eric Rohmer and François Truffaut is especially outstanding. One of my favorite Truffaut flicks, "The Man of Loved Women" was shot by him. Of course, "Days of Heaven" is great.

I'm sure the OP made valiant attempts to help his DP create the best image, but in the end the gaffer answers to the DP, much like the DP answers to the director. If the DP has the idea to shoot natural light in the middle of a dark tunnel (and he turns down your lighting suggestions), you'll need to trust that he knows what he's doing. The dailies will reveal his brilliance or failure, but it is the DP's place to showcase either.

That is the way it is supposed to work and I hope so.
 
I'm sure the OP made valiant attempts to help his DP create the best image, but in the end the gaffer answers to the DP, much like the DP answers to the director. If the DP has the idea to shoot natural light in the middle of a dark tunnel (and he turns down your lighting suggestions), you'll need to trust that he knows what he's doing. The dailies will reveal his brilliance or failure, but it is the DP's place to showcase either.

i think this is how it needs to be. i don't like to think of myself as an authoritarian, but undermining the "chain of command" as the process for decision making is the road to nowhere. however the film-making process, except on the smallest of scales, is inherently collaborative. no dp likes to find his- or herself in the position of button-pusher for a director who is really a frustrated photographer. i've found myself saying, whoa - broad strokes.

if a gaffer and dp are going in completely different directions on the set, someone probably hasn't taken the time to elaborate a coherent direction. having said that, i have been left holding the bag for bad decisions, after my repeated concerns and objections were overruled by a director with a great idea. that's a crappy place to be.
 
Sometimes you work under people who don't seem to know what they're doing. Unfortunately, you are not in a position to tell him what to do, even if he is wrong, and, judging only by your post, he probably is.

Like others have said, you have to follow the rules in the chain of command. You would not want a lighting tech telling you how to frame if you were DP, or a boom operator telling you how to coach the actors if you were directing.

A Gaffer has a semi-creative interest in the film, yes, but he is still at the mercy of the DP's command.

Communication - again, like others said - is invaluable and a necessity on set. It needs to be the foundation for the work on set because of the complex jobs and delineation of duties, among other things. If he's not communicating to you well, STOP him and tell him so. You are not in the wrong by telling your immediate superior there is a communication gap. You are not supposed to just "figure things out." You have a boss, and part of his responsibility is communicating the tasks to you. If you feel that is not happening or is not happening properly, speak up. You, the DP, and the project will be better for it.
 
There are a lot of wise words in this thread. Thank you guys for your level-headed responses. Emotions can run high when ideas clash, but I think keeping the mindset of "it's not about me, it's about the film" can clear up a lot of otherwise destructive tenancies.

I am very glad I kept my cool and gave the DP respect and help he asked for even when I felt he didn't deserve it. They say be careful what you wish for; he had a family emergency and the director promoted me in his absence. I just wrapped a 15 hour day of pure filmmaking. It was a hard shoot, my body is broken, but I got a lot of compliments from the crew and even cast after they reviewed some of the shots. I will say I quite enjoyed being able to freely manipulate lights and framing without being completely shut down immediately after suggesting something. There is something about looking up and seeing a practical on set and thinking we need to ND that and then saying "can someone go wrap spun on that overhead, thanks" and then someone goes and does it; it's almost magical. The hard part is that I always felt like the lighting was always "just good enough" and that I wished I had more time to tweak and look for more creative ideas (I will assume this is a normal feeling for DPs). I am learning so much and quite honestly I am just glad to have the opportunity to do what I love.
 
well... that was a complete turn around of the situation. that's great that you were able to step up to the task, and gain such perspective.
 
You handled the situation exactly as it should have been. Unfortunately it sounds like a typical indie film situation where not enough planning and communication occurred prior to the shoot. The director and producer should have met with the DP, you as the gaffer, and production designer to clearly communicate his vision for the scene. That would have made it clear what he was going for and the crew would be much more efficient. As a DP I like work very closely with my gaffer and we collaborate on every setup. Even though I've done lighting and been a gaffer I still respect and listen to his suggestions. If there is a reason why I feel his suggestion wouldn't be the best approach I let him or her know what I'm thinking and why I would want it lit a certain way. It really comes down to a mutual respect issue. Also, the way I look at it, I'm asking my gaffer to help me make each shot look as good as possible. They're helping me to look good so I want to motivate them to think of how to improve each shot. I've had the luck to work with some very good gaffers which makes life very easy.

You're right that it's great to be able to have your vision almost magically come true. Recently I was shooting a scene where the director couldn't clearly explain her vision but "knew exactly the look she wanted." After a lot of discussion and a few blank looks between me and my gaffer the duh moment hit and it became simple. Even thought it took the director about 10 minutes to explain what she wanted and it still wasn't clear, I simply said to my gaffer, let's do simple 3 point interview lighting on the the main actors final position and evenly light the background about 1 stops down. When the actress hits her mark and starts to deliver her monologue she'll pop. It took my gaffer 7 minutes to set up the lighting while I positioned the camera and we walked through the blocking with the actress. Did a quick test and showed the director at which point she screamed that's exactly it.

The hard part is that I always felt like the lighting was always "just good enough" and that I wished I had more time to tweak and look for more creative ideas (I will assume this is a normal feeling for DPs). I am learning so much and quite honestly I am just glad to have the opportunity to do what I love.

You're right that it's always a delicate balance of efficiency and getting it good enough. I have had only a few very rare times when I felt that it was just perfect. The director and I are always fighting something, a shadow here I don't like, a little too much light on one spot, a table that isn't placed just right, or an actor not delivering their line facing just the perfect angle, but then the AD or producer comes out and taps on the shot list and reminds us if we want to make it perfect we're going to have to negotiate with them on what shots we're cutting.
 
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