FS7: other solutions to balance for hand held.

[Duke M.]

When I first got my FS7 it shot ok out of the box hand held in doors, but outdoors I needed better and fast changing ND filters and a better mattebox.

I went with the Tilts carbon fiber mattebox and rig with my IDX brick batteries inserted in the camera, but it was front heavy and awkward.

Recently I bought the Tilta AB battery mount for the rear and some swit 90 AB batteries. What a difference that made! I also added the shape handle, moved the EVF as far forward as possible, and I finally have the balance and features I can use.

I'm curious though about other successful balance solutions, not just potential rigs or what's advertised. Stuff that really balances on the shoulder and works.

 

[morgan_moore]

For amusement Ill post a pic of my build right now balanced with the 50-300 and 'only' a 70whr batt at the back.

Clearly the lens mount should be behind the CofM if one were to balance with no bat.

Im still evaluating my best setup. Im probably going for two, one that uses a Vlock and will balance with the 50-300 and my RnG version that wont balance with that lens.

There are various spacial challenges to making a rig that will balance, with 10mm though 300 and not appear in shot with the 10. Clearly if you use the chimeny you wont get balance without a huge counter mass.

S

 

[icarusfilm]

Hey Duke how is the 28-135 working for you?

 

[Sttratos]

One of the things I realized after using my FS7 a few times is that the ready for run and gun hype is not true. It needs rigging just like any other camera which is not a real shoulder mount. So more $pending. I think I'm going with the Zacuto.

 

[broughtonfilm]

For amusement Ill post a pic of my build right now balanced with the 50-300 and 'only' a 70whr batt at the back.

Clearly the lens mount should be behind the CofM if one were to balance with no bat.

Im still evaluating my best setup. Im probably going for two, one that uses a Vlock and will balance with the 50-300 and my RnG version that wont balance with that lens.

There are various spacial challenges to making a rig that will balance, with 10mm though 300 and not appear in shot with the 10. Clearly if you use the chimeny you wont get balance without a huge counter mass.

S
View attachment 99603

Sorry to go off topic but how do you like the 50-300mm lens? I'm guessing it is parfocal?

 

[Duke M.]

off topic but it's much better than I thought it would be.I was concerned that the f4 would be too slow for indoor work but the camera is so sensitive that it's not an issue. Outdoors in EI mode it's a matter of stacking up the ND filters.

The other concern was how wide it goes. I think the lens might be mislabeled. 28 millimeters on a full frame lens as barely usable indoors because of the size of the rooms. However, with this land I was easily able to shoot at a gallery kitchen. Igallery kitchen is so small it's one step across the entire kitchen. I had no problem doing a medium shot of two people.

I find that the hand grip controls the lens fairly well. There's not a need to access most of the buttons on the body of the camera while shooting.

I had wondered about the hard rubber rings on the lens. instead of standard gears it has little divots. They turned out to be perfect for using the left hand to control the rings. I put one finger on each ring. I can adjust focus camera zoom Irish easily that way. Using the follow focus well now.

It really is a cinema style and with modern electronics. I much prefer it to the cooke lens I used to have. I think the lens is under rated. not perfect but very good.

 

[broughtonfilm]

...I think the lens might be mislabeled. 28 millimeters on a full frame lens as barely usable indoors because of the size of the rooms. However, with this land I was easily able to shoot at a gallery kitchen.

Not sure what you mean by that. Focal length labeling of lenses is not sensor size dependent and it is not relative to the field of view. 28mm is 28mm. Of course it gives different field of view depending on the sensor size but there is no difference in focal length between "28mm full frame lens" and "28mm Super 35 lens" or even "28mm Super 16 lens". Focal length is a focal length and it remains the same. I know only of few consumer cameras (in example Fuji X10) where the zoom ring is labeled with 35mm full frame equivalent focal lengths instead of the real ones, but even on that camera the front of the lens is labeled with the actual focal lengths.

 

[Gene Sung]

One of the things I realized after using my FS7 a few times is that the ready for run and gun hype is not true. It needs rigging just like any other camera which is not a real shoulder mount. So more $pending. I think I'm going with the Zacuto.

It's way better out of the box than any other camera in its class. I shoot with it barebones all the time and it works perfectly fine. If the camera only lives on your shoulder, then maybe rig it up. But I tend to also shoot from the waist / cradle and lots of low angles, and in those cases, a big shoulder rig is a big penalty. No setup works for all scenarios and everyone has different needs.

 

[broughtonfilm]

It's way better out of the box than any other camera in its class. I shoot with it barebones all the time and it works perfectly fine. If the camera only lives on your shoulder, then maybe rig it up. But I tend to also shoot from the waist / cradle and lots of low angles, and in those cases, a big shoulder rig is a big penalty. No setup works for all scenarios and everyone has different needs.

Totally agree. It is not as ergonomic and balanced as an ENG camera but very usable out of the box. Having said that, it can definitely be better if you add a well designed baseplate, XDCA and V-lock battery as a counterbalance and other accessories.

 

[morgan_moore]

Broughton.

My 50-300 is a lovely bit of glass, but no way par focal. I always consider stills lenses to be 'variable primes' and never zoom while turning over.

 

[morgan_moore]

OK here is 'the science'.

FS7, large batt (not Vlock) and EVF onboard also mic (as seen above)

With a lump like the 50-300 the CofM is about 45mm fore of the camera, with a light lens like the 50 1.8 the CofM is about 15mm behind the fore of the camera, my 28-85 is about at 0

So to balance the camera lens one would need about 60mm of for aft.

Ive used a long manfrotto plate which has 60mm of fore/aft in a 577.

Now, my miller sticks have also a sliding plate of 70mm travel but on a HH rig that is discounted.

Conclusion, im configure my rig so that the frotto plate accounts for variance of smaller handhold lenses and have the 70mm travel of the sticks take the slack on the bigger glass.

It should be doable, but it is obvious that the shoulder bump in the camera and most off the shelf 'solutions' is vastly rear of a balanced position.
Also building a rig with the chimney pot and no rear mass.. is not going to happen.

Here the camera is close to balancing on an allen key under the plate.

S

 

[Sttratos]

It's way better out of the box than any other camera in its class. I shoot with it barebones all the time and it works perfectly fine. If the camera only lives on your shoulder, then maybe rig it up. But I tend to also shoot from the waist / cradle and lots of low angles, and in those cases, a big shoulder rig is a big penalty. No setup works for all scenarios and everyone has different needs.

I think you know what I meant. When it was announced people were acting like the FS7 was the God given piece of ergonomics we were all waiting for and acting like it was shooting ready. It is not. This is even without considering that the LCD needs replacement if you want something great. Oh and I never had any problems to shoot from the waist / cradle and lots of low angles with broadcast shoulder cameras. Because you don't have to rig them to make them work and this is the problem I have with having to rig the FS7. Shoulder rigs are big and a big shoulder rig is a big penalty like you say.

 

[Gene Sung]

I think you know what I meant. When it was announced people were acting like the FS7 was the God given piece of ergonomics we were all waiting for and acting like it was shooting ready. It is not. This is even without considering that the LCD needs replacement if you want something great. Oh and I never had any problems to shoot from the waist / cradle and lots of low angles with broadcast shoulder cameras. Because you don't have to rig them to make them work and this is the problem I have with having to rig the FS7. Shoulder rigs are big and a big shoulder rig is a big penalty like you say.

Like I said, everyone is different. What works for you probably doesn't work for me. I just like to keep it simple. I don't like huge rigs and I do have a shoulder rig if needed. However, I'm very often on a tripod or a dolly on my work shoots and if I need to jump to a handheld shot (which is pretty frequently), I don't have to the time to re-rig up a big shoulder rig. I just throw it on the shoulder and make due and for myself, a minimal FS7 works perfectly fine.

Also, I shoot a fair bit of skateboarding and that is impossible to shoot with a big shoulder rig. The camera needs to be as light as possible since half the time you are riding the skateboard.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that different people have different needs and for some of us, a huge shoulder rig just isn't the answer. And no, the FS7 is not perfect out of the box but it's light years ahead of cameras in it's class like the C300, Black Magic, any DSLR, etc.... in terms of ergonomics.

To be honest, I don't really even think of rigging that much. I just use what's given to me and the people I shoot for always seems to like what I give them, especially my handheld stuff.

 

[morgan_moore]

The holiday weekend has given me time to give all this a bit of consideration.

The long frott plate gives enough room for fore-aft balance and also has free-ed up a little platform to make rodless support for my 50-300.

 

[Lucas Kao]

Here is a alternative solution I come up. I use Vocas Universal Baseplate (USBP-15F) which also works on the FS7. To balance the camera I push the baseplate as front as possible as can be seen in the photo.

And instead of the attaching the handgrip to the XLR side of the camera, I flipped the metal bar (as can be seen from the reversed Sony sign), and re-attached the handle to the control panel side of the camera using the rosette on the vocals baseplate, so the handgrip sits just under the lens. Which works great as I don't have to worry about balancing the camera left/right. The additional benefit is that the handgrip now folds up nicely without adding extra width when putting the camera in the bag.

To replicate this set up, you can actually use any baseplate with rosette on the control panel side of the camera and just use a rosette extender.

Hope it helps.

 

[Duke M.]

That's an idea worth experimenting with. The shape handle kicks the grip farther to the side. I don't mind that much though as its easiest to fold up and prevents tilting. At least for me.

 

[infohou]

Hey Folks,

Anybody bought westsideav's shoulder brace recently? There was some complaining in the beginning about the pad not having enough cushioning. Looking at it online it looks pretty good. Has he improved it?

Thinking of getting the shoulder brace to go along with his lens support.

Thanks,
Robert

 

[JPNola]

One of the things I realized after using my FS7 a few times is that the ready for run and gun hype is not true. It needs rigging just like any other camera which is not a real shoulder mount. So more $pending. I think I'm going with the Zacuto.

In my opinion "ready for run and gun" and "real shoulder mount" are not necessarily the same thing. A Sony EX3 is a camera that I characterize as ready for run and gun out of the box. But it obviously isn't a true shoulder mount camera. The fact that an Fs7 is not a true shoulder mount camera ( a camera that is balanced on the shoulder without any additional accessories ) does not mean that it isn't ready for run and gun out of the box. The very design of the Fs7, the manner in which the shoulder pad is far aft on the body, indicates that it was not designed to be a true shoulder-mount camera. It is a progression of the EX3 form. The petite size of the Fs7 provides advantages over the full-sized shoulder mount s35 cameras. One advantage is that it is more discreet in its presence. This is particularly advantageous for shooting EPK, something that comprises a majority of my work. In fact, the Fs7 may be the perfect s35 camera for EPK since with EPK shooting a stealthy presence is often a priority. You don't want to be running around with a huge rig on your shoulder like some TV news photog.

There is no doubt that the Fs7 was aimed at being a competitor with the C300. The advantage the Fs7 has over the C300 out of the box is the monocular viewfinder that is easily repositioned for a wide range of shooting. A monocular VF that is similar to the ones of traditional broadcast cameras like the beta cams.

Because of the Fs7's comparative low cost many are purchasing the camera and, via accessorizing, doing their best to make it into a shoulder mounted camera. That is to be expected. But I think it is unfair to the Fs7 to purchase one and then complain that it isn't what you should have probably purchased all along had you the budget:



A Sony Fs7 paired with the Sony 18-105mm servo or paired with the Sony FE 28-135mm servo is a low cost s35 package that out of the box is remarkably run and gun ready. There is no offering from any competitor that can provide you with a servo-zoom s35 package for anywhere close to $10k.

 

[Viddovation]

For me, I just got the Vocas FS7 baseplate, the XDCA-FS7 and the 28-135mm lens. With a Dionic Brick on the back, it's got balance close to an ENG camera. The Vocas baseplate seems very sturdy and very secure. I've got it on a VCT-14 locking plate.

 

[joshtreepark]

here is a small setup I made the other day with scrap handles and 15mm bars. Wireless video for directors monitoring and small form factor with 16-70mm lens for Red with side handle-esq set up.