Optimal settings for shooting web video?
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dmitriandsnow
Well-known member
Re: Optimal settings for web video?
Re: Optimal settings for web video?
I think we have a web compression category now. Take look in there next time. If you shoot less frames your compression will surely be nicer. (why do you think some online festivals ask for 15fps frame rates, keep note that if you shoot 15 frames and play back 15 frames it will not be either slow or fast, it would if you shot 120 frames and played back 24 a second(slow).)
Scene 5 is 24p normal and Scene 6 is 24pa.
Scene 5 is what you would use if your goals are not to transfer to film, edit in a 29.976 timeline, export 29.97 video(more frames more compression needed). You could remove the pulldown to fall back to 24fps only certain compression would have to be done in the process.
Scene 6 is what you would use to transfer to film, pull out original 24 frames without any compression, compress less and to keep it real.
Barry might come in and bless you if you are lucky.
Re: Optimal settings for web video?
I think we have a web compression category now. Take look in there next time. If you shoot less frames your compression will surely be nicer. (why do you think some online festivals ask for 15fps frame rates, keep note that if you shoot 15 frames and play back 15 frames it will not be either slow or fast, it would if you shot 120 frames and played back 24 a second(slow).)
Scene 5 is 24p normal and Scene 6 is 24pa.
Scene 5 is what you would use if your goals are not to transfer to film, edit in a 29.976 timeline, export 29.97 video(more frames more compression needed). You could remove the pulldown to fall back to 24fps only certain compression would have to be done in the process.
Scene 6 is what you would use to transfer to film, pull out original 24 frames without any compression, compress less and to keep it real.
Barry might come in and bless you if you are lucky.
Re: Optimal settings for shooting web video?
Thanks, I posted the question here because it is not about compression, I am asking about settings on the camera before I do any editing/compressing.
Ok, so what if I shoot in 30fps, which scene file woudl be best? F5 or F6? I know that are both 24 but I always change to 30fps because I don't transfer to film.
I am asking specifically about how the picture settings in F5 and F6 affect video quality that will be later shown on the web. Is there any setting I shold avoid (like -5 Mast Ped, or any in the cinema settings)?
Thanks, I posted the question here because it is not about compression, I am asking about settings on the camera before I do any editing/compressing.
Ok, so what if I shoot in 30fps, which scene file woudl be best? F5 or F6? I know that are both 24 but I always change to 30fps because I don't transfer to film.
I am asking specifically about how the picture settings in F5 and F6 affect video quality that will be later shown on the web. Is there any setting I shold avoid (like -5 Mast Ped, or any in the cinema settings)?
dmitriandsnow
Well-known member
Re: Optimal settings for shooting web video?
[quote author=monster link=board=Events;num=1093569809;start=0#2 date=08/26/04 at 19:13:28]
Ok, so what if I shoot in 30fps, which scene file woudl be best? F5 or F6? I know that are both 24 but I always change to 30fps because I don't transfer to film.
[/quote]
You shoot 24fps and capture to timeline as 29.976 correct?
Meaning you are not shooting 30 frames rather 24 frames with an applied pulldown which stores the info properly on an NTSC tape. The 2:3 pulldown process creates 30 video frames out of 24 full progressive frames.
Well if you really shooting with compression in mind you should get ride of the pulldown (is normal) to retrieve your original frames. The glitch with 24p normal is that in the process of pulldown removal one of the frames needs decompressing pulling down the quality.
The advanced process will recover all frames with no glitches. But if you do not remove the pulldown, 24pa footage will look "unnatural" relative to 24p normal without pulldown removed.
So basically shoot 24p normal if you still plan on editing in 29.97 timeline and exporting 29.97 out.
Shoot 24pa if wanting to take out unnecessary video frames to go back to 24fps rate. (from what i heard do not shoot 24pa without removing the pulldown it is a bit odd looking...)
Color wise, i think if you are going for web streaming try not to burn out the whites and at the same time not to underexpose.
Monitor color spaces all vary so i do not find it as critical to worry about color when going for web rather than actual film out.
[quote author=monster link=board=Events;num=1093569809;start=0#2 date=08/26/04 at 19:13:28]
Ok, so what if I shoot in 30fps, which scene file woudl be best? F5 or F6? I know that are both 24 but I always change to 30fps because I don't transfer to film.
[/quote]
You shoot 24fps and capture to timeline as 29.976 correct?
Meaning you are not shooting 30 frames rather 24 frames with an applied pulldown which stores the info properly on an NTSC tape. The 2:3 pulldown process creates 30 video frames out of 24 full progressive frames.
Well if you really shooting with compression in mind you should get ride of the pulldown (is normal) to retrieve your original frames. The glitch with 24p normal is that in the process of pulldown removal one of the frames needs decompressing pulling down the quality.
The advanced process will recover all frames with no glitches. But if you do not remove the pulldown, 24pa footage will look "unnatural" relative to 24p normal without pulldown removed.
So basically shoot 24p normal if you still plan on editing in 29.97 timeline and exporting 29.97 out.
Shoot 24pa if wanting to take out unnecessary video frames to go back to 24fps rate. (from what i heard do not shoot 24pa without removing the pulldown it is a bit odd looking...)
Color wise, i think if you are going for web streaming try not to burn out the whites and at the same time not to underexpose.
Monitor color spaces all vary so i do not find it as critical to worry about color when going for web rather than actual film out.
dmitriandsnow
Well-known member
Re: Optimal settings for shooting web video?
Standard film frame rate is 24fps so in order to get close to that look most shoot 24pa. Shooting 30p is like shooting 60i without the troubles of deinterlacing. Shoot which ever rate you like even 60i has pros. I guess since you do prefer 30p you get more flexibility at play back; you could play back 24fps slow it down a bit or stay 30fps. It is really a personal matter.
Standard film frame rate is 24fps so in order to get close to that look most shoot 24pa. Shooting 30p is like shooting 60i without the troubles of deinterlacing. Shoot which ever rate you like even 60i has pros. I guess since you do prefer 30p you get more flexibility at play back; you could play back 24fps slow it down a bit or stay 30fps. It is really a personal matter.
Re: Optimal settings for shooting web video?
Use one of the progressive settings. Computers and the web playback video in progressive mode anyways, I've found the 24p setting looks a little better than the 30p after the compression (Mpeg-4 for 24p Quicktime compression). I've done a lot of video work for the web and after months of trial and error that seems to look the best.
Use one of the progressive settings. Computers and the web playback video in progressive mode anyways, I've found the 24p setting looks a little better than the 30p after the compression (Mpeg-4 for 24p Quicktime compression). I've done a lot of video work for the web and after months of trial and error that seems to look the best.
Mike_Donis
Veteran
Re: Optimal settings for shooting web video?
Thats definitely somthing to consider - 24P native files have 6 less frames to compress per second than 30P files - you can get smaller file sizes that way, for a clip the same length.
Also, all strobing in 24P is the exact same that Hollywood has, and it's even more noticeable on an NTSC monitor (because of the pulldown). When seeing the frames *in* 24P, on a computer, it tends to look a lot smoother, too.
If you're making a movie, I'd definitely go 24P
Thats definitely somthing to consider - 24P native files have 6 less frames to compress per second than 30P files - you can get smaller file sizes that way, for a clip the same length.
Also, all strobing in 24P is the exact same that Hollywood has, and it's even more noticeable on an NTSC monitor (because of the pulldown). When seeing the frames *in* 24P, on a computer, it tends to look a lot smoother, too.
If you're making a movie, I'd definitely go 24P
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Optimal settings for shooting web video?
I agree with all of the technical info that has been given so far. I've done months of research on this subject and have some of the best software to get the job done. Here's what I've learned and what I would recomend:
If you like the look of 30P over 24pa then shoot in 30P. The issue of more frames per second and compression is valid. Basically 24 fps will look slighly less compressed than the 30P footage but if you plan on showing your work on DVD and really love the look of 30P then you can always encode your 30P footage to only 24fps later. If you dont like the look you still have the choice of going with a 30fps encoding.
Heres exactly how Hollywood does thoughs trailers on Apple.com.
Use a QUALITY web video compressor like Cleaner 5 or 6.
Pick Progressive Quicktime File.
Use Sorenson 3 for the video codec.
QDesign for the audio codec.
Add a plug-in that will allow you to do 2-pass VBR encoding. This is VERY important. Sorenson Video 3 Pro Edition has this feature.
Theres more to it than that but these are the major factors.
Heres some of the results I got with my online demo reel:
http://www.cinematographerreels.com/demoreels.htm
You can even go as far as shooting in a style that will compress well (ie. no quick pans, fast on screen movements) But thats pretty extreme and will most likely result in a film with no style. Anyways good luck.
I agree with all of the technical info that has been given so far. I've done months of research on this subject and have some of the best software to get the job done. Here's what I've learned and what I would recomend:
If you like the look of 30P over 24pa then shoot in 30P. The issue of more frames per second and compression is valid. Basically 24 fps will look slighly less compressed than the 30P footage but if you plan on showing your work on DVD and really love the look of 30P then you can always encode your 30P footage to only 24fps later. If you dont like the look you still have the choice of going with a 30fps encoding.
Heres exactly how Hollywood does thoughs trailers on Apple.com.
Use a QUALITY web video compressor like Cleaner 5 or 6.
Pick Progressive Quicktime File.
Use Sorenson 3 for the video codec.
QDesign for the audio codec.
Add a plug-in that will allow you to do 2-pass VBR encoding. This is VERY important. Sorenson Video 3 Pro Edition has this feature.
Theres more to it than that but these are the major factors.
Heres some of the results I got with my online demo reel:
http://www.cinematographerreels.com/demoreels.htm
You can even go as far as shooting in a style that will compress well (ie. no quick pans, fast on screen movements) But thats pretty extreme and will most likely result in a film with no style. Anyways good luck.
Bischofftep
Well-known member
Re: Optimal settings for shooting web video?
Some more thoughts:
I agree with Mike_Donis about 24pa being a good online framerate since you'll get good, smooth motion and have 6 less frames per second to send down the pipeline to your viewers. One thing to consider, though, is whether this will ever end up being viewed for NTSC or PAL TV (will you distribute a DVD version someday)? If so, you might want to shoot 30p to have the best of both worlds.
One thing to be very aware of with web compression algorithms is that they are very sensitive to
Hope this helps!
Some more thoughts:
I agree with Mike_Donis about 24pa being a good online framerate since you'll get good, smooth motion and have 6 less frames per second to send down the pipeline to your viewers. One thing to consider, though, is whether this will ever end up being viewed for NTSC or PAL TV (will you distribute a DVD version someday)? If so, you might want to shoot 30p to have the best of both worlds.
One thing to be very aware of with web compression algorithms is that they are very sensitive to
- Video Noise - Anything that causes your footage to appear grainy will make it harder for the compression to do its thing.
- Movement - The more things that are moving in the frame the more the compression has to work. A locked-down camera watching "talking heads" will compress very well. A handheld camera panning between subjects will compress very poorly. A moving background (wind in trees is a great example) will compress poorly: you can reduce the problem by narrowing your depth of field: blurry movement is easier to compress than detailed movement!
Hope this helps!