oops .... they forgot !

V

Vpro

Member
I recently sat myself down for a little R&R infront of the tube the other night .... I was almost snoozing when .... low and behold right there on the screen were some of my video clips ! what the .... ?

seems my local Multi-National production company decided to use my material in a 30 second commercial spot .... without asking me of course
On occaision I send video footage out to producers that have made request for viewing. The normal course of transaction between myself and producers is; in the event that they chose to use my video footage, they then contact me for release and negotiation for use of my material. Most often I make cordial agreements with producers, with intent in principle to develop continued business relationships. ... all is good and as it should be ....

but apparently not in this case - an oversight or mis-communication I guess
Regardless - it is mine - I own it - they used it withot consent

I have since had much conversation (civilized thus far on both sides) and the end result is that they have offered me a wee bit of cash to shut me up !

I wonder .... hmmm .... National Broadcast .... prime time Sundays .... scheduled to air approximately 70 times over the next 6 mths ....
I wonder what that is worth ???

any ideas anyone ???

cheers
Pete
 
How did you deliver it? DVD? Perhaps that's why the proliferation of this kind of stuff. Used to be, you could send a VHS for review cuz no one would/could air it. I guess it's a Brave New World, and producers are getting braver and more brazen. Thank you for making an issue out of this. For every one, there's probably 5 more that goes unnoticed. Terrible. Don't ask for too little, think about what you'd get for the lawsuit if you were to bring one although I don't know how well a verbal contract holds up. I'd also recommend not having any future dealings with these unethical scofflaws.

This stuff really tugs at my short and curlies.
-Ryan
 
Certainly don't settle for less than they would have had to pay if they contracted with you first hand and then add a bit more for due to their unauthorized usage and finally, make them write a contract to hire you for say, their next 10 projects!
 
Vpro Here

Hybrid Creations - "How did you deliver it? DVD?"
Vpro - yes I dropped it on DVD ...

Hybrid Creations - "Don't ask for too little, think about what you'd get for the lawsuit if you were to bring one although I don't know how well a verbal contract holds up."

Vpro - fortunately for me they have already admitted in writing that they used my material without consent ... their claim is that a third party told them it was free of charge ... third party claims that is not true .... round we go
It is likely an honest mistake of the producer not receiving the correct final edit info from the editor .... the mistake being ...don't deliver unleased content to your editor in the first place ! (we can all learn from this one)

Vpro - my thoughts .... the difference between the value of my having sold those clips to the producer prior to commercial release, compared to the what the cost to the company might be were I to now slap them with an injunction .... huge disparity in $$$
In the end - I think that all of us should receive payment for our material relative to the material's eventual net worth .... (like that will ever happen)

I appreciate everyone's feedback - it will certainly help in making my decision on which way to go with this

cheers
 
National? .. what nation? - And what channel?

A local station I know of with a market of about 40,000 people charges about $40 for a 30sec sunday primtime spot.
Another station I know, with a potential market of somehwere around 700,000 people, chagges about $100 / sec for airtime, that' $3000 for a 30 sec spot.
A smallmarket station here in Finland at one point was charging €4000 for 20 x 30sec over 7 days.. so that's €200/30sec.

Just a couple of examples. Basically for each million people in the target market can cost a few grand per spot.
If it's a small nation with medium number of TV's, and a minor national channel then for 70 runs, that's about $50,000 - but if it's a major network in a larger country (like NBC, ABC, CBS in the USA) then the value of the airtime is huge.
- of course don't forget that your footage (I presume) isn't all there is to the commercial.

Remeber that it's the production company that owes you for making the spot, not their client. And actually the amount of airtime/viewers doesn't neceseraly affect what the client payed the prod. company for the spot. (though it can effect waht you want to change for it - as you could possibly carge the client for continueing to use it. This could get a bit messey with all 3 parties involved..

Either way.. you probably just (you sure as hell should) got yourself at least a HVX (or 2..) with a couple of cards for the **** they just pulled.

- Mikko

P.S. Welcome to DVX user.
 
Vpro said:
... their claim is that a third party told them it was free of charge ... third party claims that is not true .... round we go
It is likely an honest mistake of the producer not receiving the correct final edit info from the editor .... the mistake being ...don't deliver unleased content to your editor in the first place!
Click to expand...

If the editor is the third party in this case, he sounds like the more believable party. Why would he give it away "free of charge"? The producer/production company seems like they would have more to gain from not having to pay you than the editor would (unless of course he claimed it was all his/her own work) I dunno, just tryin to give you more fodder for making your decision. Good luck.
-Ryan
 
Country - Canada
Station - CBC
Sports Sunday ...... can't really say any more than that at this juncture

thanks for your feedback

cheers

Vpro
 
Vpro said:
Country - Canada
Station - CBC
Sports Sunday ...... can't really say any more than that at this juncture
Click to expand...

Next 6 monthes.. that also includes the Olympics for CBC...


Canada.. CBC...
mikkowilson said:
Either way.. you probably just (you sure as hell should) got yourself at least a HVX (or 2..) with a couple of cards for the **** they just pulled.
Click to expand...
Scratch that, they owe you a varicam.

- Mikko
 
A similar thing happened to FontDiner.com That's the guy who created the font that MTV used for "The Osbournes" See, they didn't license it from him. His font was used as the basis of a national brand and he didn't receive a dime until he spoke up.

Name your price. If they refuse, tell them they have to pull it from the commercial.
 
dotconnproductions said:
Typical legal precident states that in issues like this the producer is libel for 1.5 times the going rate for the footage. I'd charge $150-$200 per second which is pretty normal.
John Conn
dotConn Productions
www.dotconnproductions.com/recentwork.html
Click to expand...


yes I agree - that is likely a fair price based on original value etc...
that concluded, at this point it comes down to whether to go for fair price or negotiate on the basis of what it might cost them were I to serve them a C&D letter. It gets another notch more complicated again. The footage that they chose to use includes subjects (talent) that have not yet signed release. I have verbal agreement from the subjects (long standing and secure) for use of this footage for my own purposes, yet anything beyond that, especially for public broadcast is an entirely different scenario. In short, by their actions, I am put at risk. Long standing and trusted relationships are compromised etc...
Who knows ... Any day now I could get served notice to pay off the talent (all 6 of them !) yikes - that could get costly ! A scenario that perhaps began as an innocent mistake could potentially cost me some real grief.... and $$$
another good lesson here for all of us ..... always carry release papers ... even if it is the neighbours dog ... !!
 
if he had used watermarks, the tv station would have never used his material. so now at least he gets a lot of money.
 
wow what a copyright infringin week. Spec-Comm steals images from DVXuser and CBC steals footage from Vpro. Makes me want to get a lawyer fast.

What is this world coming to?
 
puredv said:
wow what a copyright infringin week. Spec-Comm steals images from DVXuser and CBC steals footage from Vpro. Makes me want to get a lawyer fast.

What is this world coming to?
Click to expand...

Some free advice:

1. Get a good lawyer;
2. Immediately (as in Monday as asap afterward) take steps seeking an injunction on the use of any material incorporating your material; and
3. Beware that a Court may determine that an injunction is not the necessary way to go (because monetary damages may be able to compensate), but in any event, take the advice of the person described in 1., above. The Copyright Act specifically refers to injunctive relief for breach of copyright.

At least notice of your pending injunction should get the bad guys' attention.
 
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