Only getting 1-channel of sound

H

haighter

New member
Hi,

I've been testing a new Lav mic on my Canon Vixia HF-10. It is wired and plugs into the mic jack on the back of my camera.

When I'm shooting w/ headphones on, I only hear from the left headphone. I just reviewed the clips I shot and am only getting sound from the left channel (left headphone). I find this interesting because when I've shot with other mics using the mic-in jack (not Lavs, just standard news-style mics), I get sound out of both headphones while shooting, and both speakers when reviewing.


Is there a way to remedy this problem or does it have to do with my mic? Any and all feedback appreciated. Thanks.
 
Check your settings to see if somehow they got changed to run one channel through one ear, and one through another (I've had that happen), if not, try the mic somewhere else, and see if the mic is just defective itself.
 
Does the mic have a mono or stereo 3.5mm jack on it? If it's mono, there's your answer right there--the mic input on your Canon is stereo. If it has a stereo jack, then there may be a wiring problem with it.
 
It might be a mono jack.

How can I tell? Does it have to do with the little rings that are on the microphone jack itself? Because there is only one black ring.

Also, assuming it's mono, is there a way to manipulate the same one-channel audio track into two-channels? For instance, could I somehow copy the one-channel audio and layer it over itself, effectively creating two channel sound. Or would that sound terrible?


Thanks for the quick replies!
 
haighter said:
It might be a mono jack.

How can I tell? Does it have to do with the little rings that are on the microphone jack itself? Because there is only one black ring.
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One black band = two-conductor wiring = mono

haighter said:
Also, assuming it's mono, is there a way to manipulate the same one-channel audio track into two-channels? For instance, could I somehow copy the one-channel audio and layer it over itself, effectively creating two channel sound. Or would that sound terrible?
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You don't have to record to two channels, or even have two channels in your time line, in order to play back through both left and right monitor speakers. You should be able to capture your footage, delete the empty track, and pan the single track of audio to the center.

In fact, that's pretty much how it's normally done with dialog. Even in situations where there's only one mic, only one of the record channels will be used in post.
 
Thanks. It's definitely mono. Adjusted the audio balance, and now I'm getting sound out of both headphones. Great!


I am wondering, however. Does anyone know of any Stereo Lav mics that plug into my cameras "mic-in" jack? While the above suggestion is a valid solution, it requires me to edit the sound in one program (which I don't particularly care for) and edit the video in another (which I prefer to use). Ideally, I'd be able to find one with a stereo plug and do all my edits in the same program. Thanks.
 
Well, not to say "we told you so," but... had you listened to C2V and me in your last thread and bought a Beachtek or Juicedlink adapter and a "regular" wired lav with an XLR connection, this would be a non-issue... :)

That said, technically, what you're looking for is not a "stereo" lav, but one wired to supply its mono sound to both channels on the camcorder. (A "stereo" lav, assuming such a thing existed, would be a nightmare every time the talent turned his or her head to the left or right.) I'm not aware of any such thing, but that doesn't mean it's not out there...

That said, I don't think C2V is saying that you need a separate audio editing program; I think he means that your video editing program should be able to do such a thing.
 
haighter said:
Thanks. It's definitely mono. Adjusted the audio balance, and now I'm getting sound out of both headphones. Great!


I am wondering, however. Does anyone know of any Stereo Lav mics that plug into my cameras "mic-in" jack? While the above suggestion is a valid solution, it requires me to edit the sound in one program (which I don't particularly care for) and edit the video in another (which I prefer to use). Ideally, I'd be able to find one with a stereo plug and do all my edits in the same program. Thanks.
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Three things:

-----

First, what NLE are you using? (iMove, Premiere, FCE, FCP, AVID, etc.) The video editing app should be able to pan the audio center.

-----

Second, let's clear up the terms "mono" and "stereo." "Mono" is short for "monaural" and refers to audio that has no assigned, spatial direction. It can be a single channel of recording, or a single channel of playback or a playback that is mixed equally to all speakers. "Stereo" (old-school, "binaural") does refer to two-channel audio, but to be true stereo those channels must interact to create a sense of space. If one mic is recorded to two channels, or two mics are recorded split between the two to be mixed later, we're talking about dual mono.

"Stereo" is often misused to label any two-channel recording, but again those two channels have to interact to create a spatial image. It can get confusing in the world of audio and video editing, as the audio import and export options on programs like Final Cut and ProTools still call any two-channel file "stereo."

You are asking for a stereo lav. There are some stereo lavs out there... even Sanken makes one. Stero lavs have two independent capsules that are wired to carry signal down a common cable. These are designed for two things... covert recording of ambient sounds, and having a built-in backup for dialog (lots of newscasters wear two lavs, just in case one dies during the broadcast). They can be handy, but they're an investment.

-----

Last, let's look at some better options. By the way, what lav are you using?

To overcome the limitations of your mic and camera, you may be better off investing in an XLR converter box from Beachtek or Juicedlink. What these boxes do is take two XLR inputs (stereo or dual mono) and convert them to the two-channel 1/8" feed that the camera wants. Furthermore, the low-voltage power that the camera sends out to power consumer mics can cause nasty noise in any other gear, and these boxes defeat that power so that there are no issues.

The XLR converter box gives you much more flexible control over your sound. Most of them can sum to dual mono, so you can use one mic and still record to both channels. While many of the boxes are passive, some are active, battery-powered, and can supply phantom to mics that need it.

Of course, this does mean that you'll need to have your lav rewired at the connector for XLR and phantom power. But honestly, this will give you the best solution for your situation.
 
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Captain Pierce said:
Well, not to say "we told you so," but... had you listened to C2V and me in your last thread and bought a Beachtek or Juicedlink adapter and a "regular" wired lav with an XLR connection, this would be a non-issue... :)
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Wow... totally missed that it was the same poster. I'm well into my second beer...

For the record... try mixing a Sam Adams Cream Stout with a Sam Adams Cherry Wheat Ale. Tastes like a chocolate-covered cherry.

Captain Pierce said:
That said, technically, what you're looking for is not a "stereo" lav, but one wired to supply its mono sound to both channels on the camcorder. (A "stereo" lav, assuming such a thing existed, would be a nightmare every time the talent turned his or her head to the left or right.) I'm not aware of any such thing, but that doesn't mean it's not out there...
Click to expand...

Check this bad boy out! http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...OS_22PT_COS_22PT_Double_Capsule_Lavalier.html

Captain Pierce said:
That said, I don't think C2V is saying that you need a separate audio editing program; I think he means that your video editing program should be able to do such a thing.
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You are correct, sir.
 
Captain Pierce said:
I'll take two. :)

Seriously, though, with stuff like the Rode Videomic and Sennheiser MKE400 coming out with "stereo" mini outputs for these kinds of camcorders, I'm surprised that there isn't a lavalier equivalent out there...
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But why? Dialog such as you'd use a lav to record is virtually always recorded in mono. There's no reason at all to record it to both left and right channels in the camera unless you have a camera where you can set the channel recording levels independently as insurance against overloading. If you have one of those, you're probably using mics with balanced XLR connectors instead of minijack anyway.
 
Steve House said:
But why? Dialog such as you'd use a lav to record is virtually always recorded in mono. There's no reason at all to record it to both left and right channels in the camera unless you have a camera where you can set the channel recording levels independently as insurance against overloading. If you have one of those, you're probably using mics with balanced XLR connectors instead of minijack anyway.
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The Sanken COS22 is a beast... but I was just pointing out that they exist and Capt. Pierce was just gawking. Those lavs are really for built-in redundancy for newscasters and the like.

What he was getting at is that there has to be a lav out there (single capsule) that is wired with a 1/8" TRS to allow it to send its signal out not as balanced but as dual unbalanced. This would allow it to interface with small camcorders in the same way that the Rode Videomic does.

But back to the original line of thought... this would all be a moot point with a Beachtek or Juicedlink, and XLR-wired lavs.
 
C2V said:
The Sanken COS22 is a beast... but I was just pointing out that they exist and Capt. Pierce was just gawking. Those lavs are really for built-in redundancy for newscasters and the like.

What he was getting at is that there has to be a lav out there (single capsule) that is wired with a 1/8" TRS to allow it to send its signal out not as balanced but as dual unbalanced. This would allow it to interface with small camcorders in the same way that the Rode Videomic does.

But back to the original line of thought... this would all be a moot point with a Beachtek or Juicedlink, and XLR-wired lavs.
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I understand all that - I'm just questioning why anyone would even care about recording a lav as dual-mono on a consumer camcorder. I just don't see the point. Unless you can independently set the levels of the two channels during recording, all recording in dual-mono means is you've got a channel you won't use in post. Doesn't accomplish anything else for you.
 
Redundancy. Plain and simple. Even though it's most likely that a tape flaw on one channel will also be on the other, sometimes you feel a bit more confident if you feel like there's a net underneath you. That, and it can be really distracting having only one side of the headphones with signal during production.

But further up the thread, we also pointed out that the NLE will be able to pan the single channel to center and everything will be right with the world.

By the way... I whole-heartedly agree that it's really a wasted, roundabout solution to what's really a non-problem. Again, adding the XLR box will allow the second channel to be the -5dB safety as it should be.
 
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I think the idea of wiring a mono mic to have a dual-mono output for consumer camcorders came about because a "pro" level NLE costs as much or more than some of these consumer camcorders. :) So I'm guessing that a lot of people (not the OP, necessarily) are editing with Windows Movie Maker, or the Mac equivalent, or whatever limited version of Ulead or Pinnacle came with their camera, and that kind of free/cheap editor may not have the ability to clone that single audio track. (And even if it does, it's one less step that you have to take in "post," for that matter.)
 
C2V said:
Redundancy. Plain and simple. Even though it's most likely that a tape flaw on one channel will also be on the other, sometimes you feel a bit more confident if you feel like there's a net underneath you. That, and it can be really distracting having only one side of the headphones with signal during production.

But further up the thread, we also pointed out that the NLE will be able to pan the single channel to center and everything will be right with the world.

By the way... I whole-heartedly agree that it's really a wasted, roundabout solution to what's really a non-problem. Again, adding the XLR box will allow the second channel to be the -5dB safety as it should be.
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Exactly - if you can record 2 channels with one channel 5 dB or so below the other as a safety then it makes some sense. But most consumer camcorders don't let you do that. Frankly, a lav with a mini plug that you take directly into a stereo mini input doesn't make a lot of sense to me anyway. You can only use one mic that way and what are you going to do about the other half of the conversation? It's called dialog, not monolog <grin>. A pair of lavs with XLR (so they're balanced and can be on a longer cable) feeding into an adapter like a Beach or Juiced, or even better a true mixer such as a SD 302, and from there to the camera, each panned to its own channel, makes a lot more sense to me.
 
Hi Guys, wow. Thanks for the great responses.

First off, I'm editing between both iMovie 08 and Final Cut Express. I prefer iMovie for its simplicity (and the fact that I can cut video in a few hours.) I'm learning how to use FCE, but that's going to take some time. I can adjust the sound in FCE no problem, making my issue a moot point I suppose. However, editing video in FCE is less than intuitive and I'm noticing severe video quality loss transfering clips between FCE and iMovie.

Second, I like the idea of the XLR boxes, but quite frankly it seems like a set-up that is too much - equipment and price.


Third, I'm using a mic I found lying around my office - it's a Audio-Technica omnidirectional ATR35s.
 
haighter said:
Hi Guys, wow. Thanks for the great responses.

First off, I'm editing between both iMovie 08 and Final Cut Express. I prefer iMovie for its simplicity (and the fact that I can cut video in a few hours.) I'm learning how to use FCE, but that's going to take some time. I can adjust the sound in FCE no problem, making my issue a moot point I suppose. However, editing video in FCE is less than intuitive and I'm noticing severe video quality loss transfering clips between FCE and iMovie.

Second, I like the idea of the XLR boxes, but quite frankly it seems like a set-up that is too much - equipment and price.


Third, I'm using a mic I found lying around my office - it's a Audio-Technica omnidirectional ATR35s.
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Get a 1/8 mono to 1/8 stereo adapter, Radio Shack part number 274-0374. It will accept the 1/8 mono plug from your mic and split it to both channels of the stereo mic input. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102690
 
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haighter said:
Hi Guys, wow. Thanks for the great responses.

First off, I'm editing between both iMovie 08 and Final Cut Express. I prefer iMovie for its simplicity (and the fact that I can cut video in a few hours.) I'm learning how to use FCE, but that's going to take some time. I can adjust the sound in FCE no problem, making my issue a moot point I suppose. However, editing video in FCE is less than intuitive and I'm noticing severe video quality loss transfering clips between FCE and iMovie.

Second, I like the idea of the XLR boxes, but quite frankly it seems like a set-up that is too much - equipment and price.

Third, I'm using a mic I found lying around my office - it's a Audio-Technica omnidirectional ATR35s.
Click to expand...

And there's the one reason why you'd have to rig it to record to both channels... and this is a huge shortcoming of iMovie. Unfortunately, iMovie won't let you split out the audio channels like FCE will.

Your quality issues between iMovie and FCE, well... sort of depends on how you're moving your media, but also know that iMovie isn't as nice to the signal as FCE is. To be honest, I'd get a book on FCE and learn how to use it. Yeah, there's a learning curve, but once you really get a grasp on thinking like a non-linear editor, it's a breeze. Plus, you can do a lot more cool stuff in FCE with both audio and video.

As Steve mentioned, a simple adapter from Radio Shack will fix your recording woes. But also think about this: sound, or lack thereof, can absolutely destroy a project. The most beautiful images in the world will suffer greatly from poor audio. To get good audio, one must invest both time (to learn how to use the tools) and money (to secure the right equipment).

Really, the XLR converter box is not too much gear. In fact, it's the bare minimum. It's not bulky... mounts right under the camera and keeps the controls right in front of you, and has the threaded mount for the tripod screw so you're still able to use your sticks. And $!80 for the basic model is really not a big financial investment. Yeah, the economy sucks right now... but if you are expecting any kind of income from your projects, bad audio is a great way to get noticed for the wrong reasons. Go here and watch the video on Beachtek adapters: http://www.dvcreators.net/beachtek-xlr-adapters/

If it still just isn't in the cards for you right now, at least learn FCE since you have it. Because you have it, there's really no reason to stay in iMovie.
 
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