On The Pull - The 5d and movement

This is the kind of thing I want to see (topped) from Zactuo etc to show that thier products work..

S
 
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there's nothing magical about pulling focus.. just a ton of practice... A follow focus that can modify the turn ratio would help greatly...
 
reem12 said:
were you using a follow focus morgan? very nice.
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No

But I have been pretty obsesional about my selection of lenses

that 100-300 for example is different lower gearing from the 80-200 (nikons) and has a fat bit to grab - also im not up to 2.8

My wides are AF - low friction rings - chosen over tighter manuals which I have too

S
 
booggerg2 said:
there's nothing magical about pulling focus.. just a ton of practice... A follow focus that can modify the turn ratio would help greatly...
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Practice and its the selection of kit

can you post some examples of your FF footage with the 5d and no assistant ?

S
 
Nice work, you are doing better than I am but I was never an AC or focus puller, were you? Footage looks good, really nice at (I assume) 5.6, a good compromise between shallow DOF and too shallow DOF as most users seem to end up.

I wish more 5D MKII users had a chance to shoot 35mm motion picture cameras, shooting under 2.8 is pretty rare on films yet everyone is running around 1.4 lenses wide open on the 5D MKII.

Thanks for sharing.

Dan
 
Im just learning video/movies/digital motion - Im a stills photographer - I want to offer stylish web shorts to my stills clients - its a tough road

Old enough to be from the days when we did football with a manual focus 300 2.8 under crap floodlights

I think the 1.4 thing unrealistic - touted by 'the armchair quarterbacks' - nice phrase

of course it has its place but is a real challenge

S
 
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puredrifting said:
I wish more 5D MKII users had a chance to shoot 35mm motion picture cameras, shooting under 2.8 is pretty rare on films yet everyone is running around 1.4 lenses wide open on the 5D MKII.
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Why do you wish people would attempt to emulate shooting on film ? :huh:
 
morgan_moore said:
beacuse its watchable ?
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Three mistakes in a three word sentence, it's a tight fit but you swung it.

:Drogar-Love(DBG):

But seriously, creativity tends to stagnate when you adhere to established norms. We have a camera that can do things that film cannot, why ignore these differences and try and match the feel of film ?
 
Lee Wilson said:
Why do you wish people would attempt to emulate shooting on film ? :huh:
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Lee:

No, you misunderstood my idea. I wish people who are running around shooting everything on their 5D MKIIs at 1.4 or 1.8 had some film shooting experience, specifically 35mm motion picture film so that they would understand that in filmmaking, not even the best professionals in the world typically shoot wide open, they light, as all good DPs do, to the desired F stop to achieve the desired DOF and light levels.

Lenses look their worst wide open or almost closed (because of diffraction). Clips where everything except the most razor thin area of the picture are massively out of focus look pretty lame generally unless there is a motivated reason in the script for it. It's all about taste, aesthetics and having your shots in focus, even with shallow DOF. Sure, if you are going to shoot in bad or available light or at night, you may have to shoot wide open or close to it. But I have seen many 5D MKII projects where the whole thing is shot wide open and it looks like a blurry, ridiculous mess. No different that the 35mm adapter crowd. Just because you have a tool doesn't mean you should use it all of the time.

My primes on my 5D MKII are f4.0, 1.4, 1.8 and I mostly shoot in the f4-5.6 range. Anyone with experience with optical design or lenses knows that the sweet spot to operate almost any lens in is usually right around f4-5.6. With the realtively huge sensor on the 5D MKII, you still get plenty of shallow DOF at f4 in most cases.

To me, the 5D MKII looks almost nothing like motion picture film, it has it's own look that I find pleasing but not like film and I don't advocate trying to make your 5D MKII footage always look like film. But I do advocate that newer shooters try to emulate cinema styles and in cinema, DPs generally don't shoot wide open unless there is a reason to do so. It is in the same basket as moving a camera cinematically, composing your shots using the rule of thirds, negative space, etc. Proven by over a hundred years of cinema to work best for visual storytelling.

And for those who cop out and say that they are "inventing a new style of movie making" by breaking the rules, you can't break the rules unless you know and can effectively apply the rules. If you shoot everything wide open, move the camera badly, etc. that's not breaking the rules, that is just incompetent shooting. ;-)

Dan
 
I think the whole 5d looking like 35mm film is subjective and will vary in opinions, as to what one might view it as over the other. I myself have graded some work from the cam and feel that it can certainly get close in nature to the look of 35mm, but thats my opinion.

I do agree with puredrifting on properly lighting a scene, as this is also a tool to creating depth and giving a film a certain asthetic.
 
Lee Wilson said:
We have a camera that can do things that film cannot, why ignore these differences and try and match the feel of film ?
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Mate - I condiser myself to be a craftsman foremost and an artist secondly

A craftsman pleases clients and an artist pleases themselves or maybe others or maybe no-one - which is fine

I feel that my clients will want work that has technical/craft competence

I am trying to learn the skill of using the 5d in a technically compenent manner

I am hoping to share ideas/techiques on the forum to help me and others acheive that

Or realise that it is not possible and move back to my EX1

Or at least know how to use the two together

The massive appeal of 'cracking' the 5d is the stills capability which when my client wants stills too has massive implications in the speed and physical demands (on me) of carrying the kit - its hard to take photos with an EX1 on your back

'Cracking' the 5d also has implications in terms of excess bagage fees and the cost of assistants and lighting requirements - things that cost time/energy/money

And if you can save time/energy/money that is appealing to clients

And if you appeal to clients you get work

And if you get work you can fund doing art

S

Edit: by technical competence I mean the ability to create stable sharp shots of subjects that may move, ideally while handholding the camera - that is my goal - once I can do that I can choose to do other things
 
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You certainly have the focus and movement down. Nice work. Would like to see some of your narrative work with this camera/lens when you shoot a project.

Dan
 
Very nicely put especially the part about knowing the rules before you can break them.

puredrifting said:
Lee:

No, you misunderstood my idea. I wish people who are running around shooting everything on their 5D MKIIs at 1.4 or 1.8 had some film shooting experience, specifically 35mm motion picture film so that they would understand that in filmmaking, not even the best professionals in the world typically shoot wide open, they light, as all good DPs do, to the desired F stop to achieve the desired DOF and light levels.

Lenses look their worst wide open or almost closed (because of diffraction). Clips where everything except the most razor thin area of the picture are massively out of focus look pretty lame generally unless there is a motivated reason in the script for it. It's all about taste, aesthetics and having your shots in focus, even with shallow DOF. Sure, if you are going to shoot in bad or available light or at night, you may have to shoot wide open or close to it. But I have seen many 5D MKII projects where the whole thing is shot wide open and it looks like a blurry, ridiculous mess. No different that the 35mm adapter crowd. Just because you have a tool doesn't mean you should use it all of the time.

My primes on my 5D MKII are f4.0, 1.4, 1.8 and I mostly shoot in the f4-5.6 range. Anyone with experience with optical design or lenses knows that the sweet spot to operate almost any lens in is usually right around f4-5.6. With the realtively huge sensor on the 5D MKII, you still get plenty of shallow DOF at f4 in most cases.

To me, the 5D MKII looks almost nothing like motion picture film, it has it's own look that I find pleasing but not like film and I don't advocate trying to make your 5D MKII footage always look like film. But I do advocate that newer shooters try to emulate cinema styles and in cinema, DPs generally don't shoot wide open unless there is a reason to do so. It is in the same basket as moving a camera cinematically, composing your shots using the rule of thirds, negative space, etc. Proven by over a hundred years of cinema to work best for visual storytelling.

And for those who cop out and say that they are "inventing a new style of movie making" by breaking the rules, you can't break the rules unless you know and can effectively apply the rules. If you shoot everything wide open, move the camera badly, etc. that's not breaking the rules, that is just incompetent shooting. ;-)

Dan
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Puredrifting is absolutely right. I see a lot of day/exterior shots with stupidly wide apertures on the 5D and other cameras using 35mm adapters. I've never seen any DoP's work in such a way. Not only the shots look horrible, it also makes the AC's life very difficult and it requires working with heavy ND filters that most likely will take away some of the resolution (and in film cameras make it more difficult to guess what they are looking at through the viewfinder).

To Puredrifting's comment, I would also add the fact that such apertures don't look real. T/4-T/5.6 resemble more how the human eye works. With the 5D I'd even say you would still get a nice DOF at f/6, f/7. Only in extreme circumstances (night shoot with hardly any lighting) or for a narrative motivated reason (e.g. close up shot to really isolate/separate the actor from the everything around him/her) I would attempt to shoot anything below f/2.

Moving pictures are not like stills photography where you only have one shot to get your audience attention (really shallow DOF help's to create an unusual look in this case) - there's a whole story to tell, and quite more time to create a 'real' illusion.
 
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