on or near camera monitor for an old codger

Peter C. said:
I know how difficult it is to setup. I keep venue notes of all the place I film one of them is feet to stage. If they won't open the curtain I get a diagonal from the front edge will give me approximate depth.
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That's a great idea using the closed curtain. If I took a laser measuring device and measured to the point on the stage where I want to find focus, I could find a corresponding spot once the curtain is closed to set focus.
 
rob norton said:
@tired I'd still take one of the latest sony/canon cameras for a spin
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I hear you, the guy I work for uses a mix and certainly talks up the canon. Apart from the fact that my wife would kill me if I bought another camera (she's pushing me to retire) I don't see investing in a new ecosystem as viable when I'm only shooting sporadically throughout the year (Dec is usually busy with end of year stuff).
 
Peter C. said:
Your issue seems more to do with the GH5 and getting there early enough to get your focus before curtains close. Larger sensors are going to have small dof and margin of error.
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Venues seem to be increasingly hard on allowing people in early. I understand they want to limit the dance schools to the time they pay for, but I end up rushing up and down stairs, lugging gear and setting up cameras (I'll set up 5 cameras in some venues). With torn rotator cuffs and osteoporosis, I fear my wife may be right.
 
I must say, I miss this kind of interaction. Forums have something that Facebook & social media lack. Over the years, I've learned so much reading and interacting on sites like this and DVinfo
 
Doing all that at 70 is a privilege...maybe not actually working, but the workout, ha.
 
There's no question that AF on my FX6 is better than my A1 mark 1, which is still pretty good. And my Z200 is even better than the FX6. Nearly perfect when setup properly.
 
tired said:
I hear you, the guy I work for uses a mix and certainly talks up the canon. Apart from the fact that my wife would kill me if I bought another camera (she's pushing me to retire) I don't see investing in a new ecosystem as viable when I'm only shooting sporadically throughout the year (Dec is usually busy with end of year stuff).
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If that’s the case I’d sell everything then tee up a non rental house fx6 hire from a friend. You could probably just put an fx6 body in an Uber eats bag, have it couriered via Uber steaitht to the venue.

5 cameras is a lot of coverage. Obviously doable but sounds like too many angles for not enough appreciation.
 
rob norton said:
If that’s the case I’d sell everything then tee up a non rental house fx6 hire from a friend. You could probably just put an fx6 body in an Uber eats bag, have it couriered via Uber steaitht to the venue.

5 cameras is a lot of coverage. Obviously doable but sounds like too many angles for not enough appreciation.
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It's a bonkers approach to film a dance recital with 5 mirrorless cameras. No wonder he doesn't have enough time to setup. The appropriate tool is two matched camcorders. It's not sexy but it's what's called for.
 
Peter C. said:
It's a bonkers approach to film a dance recital with 5 mirrorless cameras. No wonder he doesn't have enough time to setup. The appropriate tool is two matched camcorders. It's not sexy but it's what's called for.
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I'm struggling to accept the sensor size prescription. Arri make the AMIRA live and ALEXA 35 live cameras - some stage stuff here https://www.arri.com/en/camera-systems/live-cameras/alexa-35-live. I'd rather have them as part of the conversation than not be up for consideration. Shallow depth of field can emphasise and support the narrative that not all people telling the story on stage are created equal, dance also a form of storytelling.
 
rob norton said:
I'm struggling to accept the sensor size prescription. Arri make the AMIRA live and ALEXA 35 live cameras - some stage stuff here https://www.arri.com/en/camera-systems/live-cameras/alexa-35-live. I'd rather have them as part of the conversation than not be up for consideration. Shallow depth of field can emphasise and support the narrative that not all people telling the story on stage are created equal, dance also a form of storytelling.
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Large sensor cameras are indeed finding their way into what was previously the domain of 2/3" and smaller sensor systems, but along with that comes some serious focus challenges. We've surely all seen moments in sports broadcasts with full frame cameras on a gimbal chasing the action on the field, and the focus is less than desirable. Autofocus is fine for some scenarios but not all. If one is shooting a stage show and ends up with a character downstage talking to one upstage and having to rack between them on the dialogue, that's all up to the operator (even a touch focus screen won't be much help if there is a need to pan/tilt/zoom during those moments). It's pretty obvious to say, but I think for the end product, it's great when it's in focus, not so great otherwise. So the decision to go that route has to be made based on the hit to miss ratio.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Large sensor cameras are indeed finding their way into what was previously the domain of 2/3" and smaller sensor systems, but along with that comes some serious focus challenges. We've surely all seen moments in sports broadcasts with full frame cameras on a gimbal chasing the action on the field, and the focus is less than desirable. Autofocus is fine for some scenarios but not all. If one is shooting a stage show and ends up with a character downstage talking to one upstage and having to rack between them on the dialogue, that's all up to the operator (even a touch focus screen won't be much help if there is a need to pan/tilt/zoom during those moments). It's pretty obvious to say, but I think for the end product, it's great when it's in focus, not so great otherwise. So the decision to go that route has to be made based on the hit to miss ratio.
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Agreed, any advantage of a large sensor camera is gone the moment the subject is out of focus. A typical stage is 25+ feet deep...
 
CharlesPapert said:
Large sensor cameras are indeed finding their way into what was previously the domain of 2/3" and smaller sensor systems, but along with that comes some serious focus challenges. We've surely all seen moments in sports broadcasts with full frame cameras on a gimbal chasing the action on the field, and the focus is less than desirable. Autofocus is fine for some scenarios but not all. If one is shooting a stage show and ends up with a character downstage talking to one upstage and having to rack between them on the dialogue, that's all up to the operator (even a touch focus screen won't be much help if there is a need to pan/tilt/zoom during those moments). It's pretty obvious to say, but I think for the end product, it's great when it's in focus, not so great otherwise. So the decision to go that route has to be made based on the hit to miss ratio.
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Yes but instead of attempting these likely to end in tears shots, a shallower depth of field look should just means certain shots are off the table, still potentially providing a net benefit.

Peter C. said:
Agreed, any advantage of a large sensor camera is gone the moment the subject is out of focus. A typical stage is 25+ feet deep...
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It's only fair then to use this same sentence for camcorders too. Any advantage of camcorders are gone the moment the lead talent's face looks awful because their face went nuclear, or the efforts of the lighting and production team's effects don't read on camera as well.

Anyway I don't dislike camcorders (who does!?) and I don't worship S35/FF, I just don't agree with the only tool to use dead end.

What would people here choose to shoot a play? 3 Arri Amiras or 3 of the best smaller sensor camcorders money can buy? IMO, it depends, which is my point!
 
rob norton said:
What would people here choose to shoot a play? 3 Arri Amiras or 3 of the best smaller sensor camcorders money can buy? IMO, it depends, which is my point!
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I haven't really been keeping up with the camcorder side of things, but aren't there smaller format cameras with log recording now...?

Is there such a thing as using a B4 lens with an S35 camera like an Amira, shooting windowed S16? Kind of the best of both worlds, I'd think.
 
The BM studio cameras were always heavily marketed for this kind of stuff for many years. I always thought that's where ARRI kind of got the idea.

At one point they even had pics of people on stage and a few studio cameras filming them (in that over-the-top dramatic Blackmagic marketing).

I've used them for keynotes and were fine (and they have a MFT sensor which at least is more forgiving and could be a sweet spot).

But if I had to choose cameras today it would definitely be a mix of full-frames for the creativity and 1-2 camcorders for safety and smooth zooming.

BM.jpg
 
CharlesPapert said:
I haven't really been keeping up with the camcorder side of things, but aren't there smaller format cameras with log recording now...?

Is there such a thing as using a B4 lens with an S35 camera like an Amira, shooting windowed S16? Kind of the best of both worlds, I'd think.
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Chris (@cyvdieo) started a thread about an fx6.

Yes I think there are several with log recording these days.
NorBro said:
But if I had to choose cameras today it would definitely be a mix of full-frames for the creativity and 1-2 camcorders for safety and smooth zooming.
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I'd be hiring Peter, Doug Jensen, NorBro and Run&Gun for the most options in post.
 
I run a venue. My pet hate is video people who turn up after open stage time has passed. I know all the excellent places in the venue and offer them. Too much trouble for many. They wander round setting up cameras in positions I know will be terrible. They swat aside advice. They also seem incapable of using sense. I know where people will stand. I might go back stage, behind the house tabs and pace out a few distances from where mics are set. I make a note, and the. I can focus on the tabs, and turn the ring to move the sharp focus point to the mid point of the sharp focus region. Very often, from out front, its probably 1 to 2 meters upstage of the tabs. Ive never had focus issues using this system. Any camera where focus will need to change to retain sharpness, needs an operator. Last year thee was a new trend. At the back of the audience, on manned camera. Immediately next to it two more set on narrow and wide. How boring.
 
rob norton said:
Chris (@cyvdieo) started a thread about an fx6.

Yes I think there are several with log recording these days.

I'd be hiring Peter, Doug Jensen, NorBro and Run&Gun for the most options in post.
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how did R&G make it in here, lol (good choice but he hasn't been around)
 
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