On Location Lighting

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Dan_The_Man

Active member
Hi there,

I am planning to do a small shoot in an underground car park close to my house. I am planning on using 2-3 redheads (800 watt) and was wondering what the best way to power these lights would be? I'm thinking either batteries or a petrol generator.

Any tips on powering lights on location would be much appreciated. Bare in mind that i'm on a budget!

Dan
 
Do your best to get a generator. Batteries are great, but the amount you'd need to power something like that for a decent amount of time would be a bit high. They just aren't built for it, and the expense would be too high compared to renting a generator. 1600-2400 watts is a lot, but not too ridiculous if you have a generator.
 
Even the quietest of generators are extremely noisy. Forget about using them if you're trying to keep a low profile or recording dialogue unless you're somehow able to get them very far away from the set or you're prepared to ADR. The Sony EU series is pretty much the standard.
 
Tying into mains is really the best option in every situation, but since you're looking for something portable I assume that's not an option. And, as was said, sound is going to be a big problem with those if you can't get it far away. Getting it outdoors or near to it, in an insulated area, with a mess of heavy duty extension cables can work, although extension cables are never quite as efficient as hard wiring. It's possible that a couple of deep cycle batteries can work if you're doing a very quick shot. I'm not going to calculate it now, but math is your friend here, but I suspect the resulting requirements are going to be pretty big. Less if you get a low power solution, of course.
 
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What does Kva stand for? I am looking at variouse petrol generators and they seem to be catagorised in to values of Kva, I'm assuming this is the measurement of power. If I am planning to use 3x800watt lights (2400watts), what Kva does this translate to? I'm sure there are a lot of other mathamtical factors into working out how to power my shoot but I don't really have a clue to be honest. Any advice would be much appreciated.
 
What fixtures are you using? 800 watts - is that a CineLight par or something? Redheads are usually Mole 1k or 2ks. Anyway, I don't know of an 800w Mole fixture, but I don't know every light in their catalogue! 200, 250, 300, 650, 1k, 2k are standard lower Mole fixture wattages.

Regardless, you have a few options for this. Tying into some local power service would be best, but you can go with a rented quiet generator. We've put them in the back of vans, around corners and behind baffling to further quiet them. Honda and others make readily available 3k and 5k units that are ~55dB at peak capacity. That's not quiet enough to have next to the set for dialogue, but it wouldn't take much planning to get them isolated enough for this purpose.

Good luck!

e
 
I havn't bought the lights yet but was considering going for something cheap e.g. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-x-800w-Pro-Red-Head-Continuous-Light-kit-Express-D3I_W0QQitemZ250446222049QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Photography_StudioEquipment_RL?hash=item3a4fc212e1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1690|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

Are these copies or just grey imports? I have kind of pushed my budget by buying an XH A1 and am looking to spend around £300-£400 on my mic. I feel that if I am going to make a budget cut anywhere it could be on my lighting. I'm not saying that lighting isnt important, just that if I can get a cheaper option from overseas with good wattage and brightness etc, then why not cheap out a bit? Am I mad in my logic?
 
Generators are always specified in KVA - KiloVoltAmpere. Without boring you with the science, it's mostly acceptable to just use KW, on the basis that amps x volts = watts. As a rule of thumb, it works fine. The big generator people from portable through to power station talk in the more technically accurate volt/amp because we're dealing with alternating current, and inductive loads can make KW a bit innacurate.

Genny noise is quite horrible, but distance works wonders, so a small genny and a very long cable should bring the noise level down to manageable amounts. In a real world location, there will be street noise anyway, so it doesn't have to be totally silent.
 
Those are open-face fixtures, and the stolen "redhead" moniker is very misleading. They could be fine, but I've never worked with them.

There are lots of threads on DVXUser that cover inexpensive new alternative fixtures and plenty of good advice for buying used Mole, Bardwell/JG McAlister, Arri, DeSisti, LTM and the others that are the standard workhorses of the industry.

eBay is a treasure-trove of used studio-caliber fixtures. Search "mole richardson", "arri" and the others I listed and you'll not likely regret your purchase. Lower wattage and different fixture type, but this one is a great example of a fine looking Mole currently on ebay.

New Arris are very popular for people who travel their kit a lot as are the Pro series from Altman.

e
 
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Use only a Honda EU, do not use a cheap contractor generator as they are not blimped, extremely noisy and run at 3600 RPM. Use the Eco-Throttle on so the gennie will go the slowest speed possible to produce the current you need, put it as far away as you can, put it around a corner, make a sound absorbing tent of furniture blankets and C-stands around it, and run a 12 gauge extension. What did I forget?

Oh yeah, close-mic the actors.
 
hi,

be very careful buying cheap lights...you get what you
pay for.

i bought one of these "readheads" it was a disaster.
1.the cable was not rated anywhere near 10 amp.
2. the earth lead was terminated at the switch,not
screwed into the housing like it should be.

3. the ceramic lampholders turned back to sand after several hours use.

i basicly had to rebuild it to make it safe..

there is a reason the real fixtures cost a lot, after 15 years
my ianaro readheads are still going.

cheers
ian
 
The problem with work lights is color temperature and they are not as effective as HMI.

But If they are the only lights you use in the shot you can get away with color correction in post.

Don`t whitebalance in the camera in this situation.
It wil boost your blue channel and ad more noise than you can handle in post.

There is an other alternative to light big spaces the cheap way without blowin all fuses or the need of a macho generator.

I don´t know the english term for those (Sodium-vapor lamp I think), but they are used to iluminate big public buildings in the night. Those spots are huge, cheap and have a massive output (way more than you expect for 300w) but they have a heavy yellowish cast. But you can fight it with filters on the camera and fine tune it in post.

We lit several cathedrals (inside) that way with only 10 of them (3000 watt all together).

Frank
 
I was reading a thread from one of the Stickies in the lighting section where the guy used a similar work light but replaced the bulbs with some kind of daylight bulb. This seems like a good option to me.

How are bulbs measured? If I am searching for some white/daylight bulbs to put in the worklight, how can I tell which ones will fit?

Also, I still don't understand why you pay such a fraction of the price for worklights (Even when you factor in replacing the bulbs) compared to a pro lights.
 
The work lights don't have the same construction as studio lighting. The worklights and very inexpensive studio-style fixtures are often built with metal that is barely above the level of pot metal. Manufacturing processes differ quite a bit as well. Lots of plastic on low-end fixtures - which is almost always at odds with the concentrated heat they produce.

You absolutely can use worklights for a quick fix. It is very unlikely that they'll make it through a lengthy shoot, let alone become a piece of your permanent kit. The brands of fixtures I mentioned in my earlier post often outlive their owners - or several owners. If you look around online, you'll find the deals.

There is an auction on ebay today for 7x 5k B&M senior fresnel fixtures that were pulled right off the grid in a California TV station. Each fixture would retail for about $600 if you replaced it with the modern equivalent. The lot is going for $999. That's effectively five lights for free. Too much wattage for your application and who wants to deal with Bates connectors? But, the point is that those lights are likely in their third (or more) set of hands - and the (happy) new owner will unlikely be their last.

I have had several workhorse J.G. McAlister lights (Juniors and Seniors) that were manufactured in the 1960s. At worst, they needed simple re-wiring and new reflectors to perform as new. Same for Mole and Strand.

Or, you could continue to try to shoehorn poorly made lights from far off lands into doing the same job. :) Another option is to rent lights and / or a light-grip-operator package for your project. You should find that you can find a local independent light / grip 1 ton package with an operator included for one flat rate.

http://www.pyramid-films.com/

e
 
Wow, thanks for that info Erik! It was really helpful. The projects that I have in the pipeline at the moment are all very small. I am very new to filmmaking and just trying to shoot short scenes so that I can experiment with all the elements that will make me a good filmmaker in the future. I am particularly interested in filming action and fight scenes.

This is why I am after a cheap and semi perminant (something that will last me a year or so) lighting option. This way I can film when and where I want without racking up expensive costs for renting so frequently.

Once I have really got to grips with how to make my scenes look how I want them to look then I can start shelling out a bit of money to film a propper project. I have currently only filmed one serious project and rented all the propper gear to do so.

With this in mind it seems to be more logical to buy a set of 3 worklights with some daylight bulbs then to rent the propper gear for a day or two as it is so much cheaper. That being said, I would really prefer to find some propper lights that as you said will last a very long time. I will search hard for some good deals before I buy any worklights.

I also have the luxury of working in a film studio. My job is office based but we have 3 stages full of gear. I am going to go and ask our handyman if there's any old equipment that I can borrow/buy/have. Fingers crossed.
 
Postmaster said:
I don´t know the english term for those (Sodium-vapor lamp I think), but they are used to iluminate big public buildings in the night. Those spots are huge, cheap and have a massive output (way more than you expect for 300w) but they have a heavy yellowish cast. But you can fight it with filters on the camera and fine tune it in post.

We lit several cathedrals (inside) that way with only 10 of them (3000 watt all together).

Frank
Click to expand...
I'd very much like to see some vidcaps please.

It isn't possible to completely correct the light from sodium vapor lights due to the physics. They have a discontinuous spectrum. In other words there are colors that are simply missing. So, if you don't mind the yellow, okay. But you can't possibly get accurate colors or skin tones.
 
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