On Camera LCD Color/Contrast Representation

[Richard Allen Crook]

I've found that the LCD is unusable for setting exposure and lighting. Been burned a few times when I couldn't use my calibrated Marshall for some shots and ended up overexposing. Anyone else find this rather irritating? DSLRs got it right by making sure their lcds were correct, surprised Sony didn't ensure theirs was. Any workarounds or settings that can help this? Or is the only solution to have a calibrated monitor or EVF? Wonder if this could be fixed with future firmware updates.

 

[mico]

With zebras and histogram on?

 

[Richard Allen Crook]

With zebras and histogram on?

I'm talking about the visual representation of what is seen on the LCD vs. what is actually recorded. The histogram and zebras are great at helping with lighting and exposure, but it would be nice to see a correct image too. For example, The LCD makes me think the shadows are being crushed, when in fact they are not, so I bump the exposure up to get more detail...only to find after viewi in post that the bump in exposure was not necessary.Any ideas on workarounds or settings to help?

 

[morgan_moore]

Surely if you understand the histo you can see where the darks are?

As for colour - the cam needs a 3 colour histo

S

 

[Richard Allen Crook]

Oh I do understand...but it's hard to light a scene, like how much to pepper a shadowed area just looking at the histo. Would be great to actually see the correct image. Like ability to calibrate the LCD. And yes...rgb histo would be great!

 

[morgan_moore]

Of course you are right a calibrated screen would be great

Coming from a stills background - shooting RAW - I have long given up any concept of images 'on set' being anything but a general representation

Leaving actual colour until behind a desk on a decent monitor (with files that have the meat to take post)

Its one of the challenges of shooting with a 'narrow' file format

I guess you need to evaluate your clients expectations, and for colour critical applications suggest they rent a Raw shooter

As for using the histo if you have a zoom you can always evaluate individual portions of the image (ie zoom into a shadow area and look at the histo then)

(Edit)

To me a far more valuable addition to the camera would be a larger HIsto (like the large sound bars) and some method of evaluating colour/brightness

The EX1 has a % availabe for the centre zone

This, but with RGB % would be a strong tool and work irrelevant of monitor calibration and also ambient light (eg on a sunny day the monitor will mislead)

S

 

[Richard Allen Crook]

Yeah my mentality has shifted using prior cameras that have calibrated LCD images. Good point you have-, zooming into sections of the frame to make sure I'm safe. Seems cameras like this in today's digital world shouldn't have to be general representation of the images. I just find it annoying that Sony didn't provide a proper calibrated monitor.

 

[rx8pilot]

I have not seen any LCD's on DSLR's that I would bet my job on. I come from a film world where the only representation of the image is in my head. We had to "know" the fim stock. This fundamental reality did not change entirely as the digital cameras replaced the film stocks. I am much more of an engineer than a DP, so I tend to use the various exposure tools available to gain an understanding of what the camera is actually capturing. Histograms, waveforms, zebras, light meters, calibrated monitors in dark rooms, etc all help. MANY jobs I am on cannot have a real calibrated display in an environment worthy of making exposure calls based solely on looking at the image itself - some of these are big budget jobs too. Histogram goes a long way toward telling you how much detail is in the shadows and highlights which is the key determining factor in picking an exposure. It does take some experimentation to understand how the information in the histogram will translate to the final images. For example, when I use an Alexa shooting ARRI RAW to a CODEX, I know that I can push the shadows almost beyond recognition, and still pull them into a useable positon later. This is a lot less true with an FS100 because of limited bit depth and color sampling going into a heavy handed compression. The nice thing about getting a solid set of skills with exposing and lighting via histogram or waveforms, is that they do not care if they are being washed out with sunlight - they tell you the same thing all the time. Even the best calibrated display I the world is useless for exposure as soon at it gets washed with light. The smaller displays (to me) are the worst regardless of the "calibration" status.

 

[Richard Allen Crook]

I'm not debating anything you said, but I wouldn't bet my job on just a histo or scope either. I like to think it the mix of all the tools one may have at disposal: monitor, histo, waveform, zebras, peaking, false colors...etc etc.. It would just be nice to have the monitor be close. Canon DSLRs are actually very close, but I'm not saying that one should only expose via monitor. It's all of the tools in combination that gives us our criteria for judging exposure. But what about lighting? The monitor is crucial for this. When im painting a subject or set with lights, i need a calibrated monitor to judge the artistic value of the image...not scopes. If i don't use a properly calibrated monitor on set, I'm leaving a lot to be guessed as a DP in charge of lighting something dramatically.

 

[mico]

Since the lcd can't do what you want regarding color and knowing specific exposure values and you're using a cam whose native footage can't be manipulated too far in post, you have to set, to your liking, each of your pic profiles for the particular environments you're shooting in and for knowing specific exposure values you'll have to use a light meter. Since most of us can't have a dedicated dit with $10,000 monitors to view accurately you have to approach it like the film guys did in the past by knowing what you're getting without accurately seeing by using your pp's which basically give you different film stocks and knowing your exposure ratios you can set individual lights easily and know their values as well as the values of the shadow areas using your light meter.

 

[Richard Allen Crook]

I suppose that's the way to go mico for now...but to be fair I dont think you need 10,000 dollars and a DIT to simply have a calibrated monitor (in addition to your internal histo and zebras). But would still be cool if they somehow got the LCD closer in a firmware update or something. Is that even possible?