On Camera Field Monitors: Marshall LCD70MD-3G vs SmallHD A7-SDI vs Ikan D7w

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commercialguy

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I need a good on camera monitor for the Black Magic Cinema Camera. Has to have SDI-HD ports on it to connect to the camera. And it has to have markers or frame guides to help with framing properly for broadcast TV. I prefer video scopes as well to check exposure and other things. My only concern with Ikan is I heard of people having problems with the monitor not lasting as long. And the SmallHD doesn't have the video scopes/added features the Marshall or Ikan have. At the same time, the Marshall isn't 1280x800 like the others but seems to have all the feature for professional broadcast video production. I'm leaning towards the Marshall right now, possibly the Ikan. Thoughts?

Marshall LCD70MD-3G ($999 + $22.94 battery plate) $1,021.94 + battery cost
7-inch monitor
High Resolution 1024 x 600 LED backlit IPS panel
High Brightness 800-nit with adjustable backlight
DSLR Ratio Adjustment with 4 DSLR ratio presets
On screen Waveform / stereo audio bar display
Manual Gamma adjustment
Adjustable IRE Clip Guide (Zebra filter)
Stereo headphone output (select a L+R pair from the available channels)
6 monitor configuration user presets
Custom screen markers (choice of four colors and variable lines widths)
HDMI Auto Color Space and Ratio Detect
New Peaking filter (choice of four color highlights and variable sensitivity)
False Color filter
Four user assigned function buttons with 32 possible uses
Pixel-to-Pixel panning (Custom Pixel-to-Pixel Mode)
15:9, 16:9, 4:3 Pixel-to-Pixel modes
Input Crop with automatic scaling
RGB Check Field with Monochrome

SmallHD A7-SDI ($899 + cheapest battery plate $59.99) $958.99 + battery cost
7-inch monitor
1280x800 resolution
8-bit color depth
HDMI, Component, Composite
Focus Assist, DSLR Scale, Frame Guides

Ikan D7w $1,169 (kit version comes with Canon mount and battery)
7-inch monitor
1280 x 800 HD IPS panel
Waveform, Vector Scope, & RGB Parade
HDMI, HD-SDI input with loop-through
False color with adjustable under luminance and over luminance warning
Clip guide with adjustable threshold
Peaking with red outline
 
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I would also look at the 5.6" TV Logic as well. It has Focus Assist, Markers, time code display and Audio Level Meter. Although it looks a little more expensive than what you're in the market for ($1,200). It will be less weight and lower profile. If you're locked into the three above, I'd go with the Marshall in my opinion. You lose a little resolution but gain more tools (especially pixel to pixel).
 
rynpaige said:
I would also look at the 5.6" TV Logic as well. It has Focus Assist, Markers, time code display and Audio Level Meter. Although it looks a little more expensive than what you're in the market for ($1,200). It will be less weight and lower profile. If you're locked into the three above, I'd go with the Marshall in my opinion. You lose a little resolution but gain more tools (especially pixel to pixel).
Click to expand...


Couldn't agree more.

The TV Logic is a great monitor, and is worth investment. It also has HDMI loop through which is a great feature to have if using more than (1) monitor on set.

But, if don't have the budget, then get the Marshall.

Using scopes brings your cinematography on a higher level and while one can use Small HD's false colors as a way of measuring exposure, the scopes on the Marshall are industry standard so you'll be confident in knowing your image is going down the pipeline as you exposed it for.
 
Thanks guys, I just called Ikan and apparently there monitors do have markers/frame guides as well. They just didn't list it as a main feature on their website. Talked to a guy in their tech department and he's going to update their website. He showed me in the quickstart guide on page 4 where it says it's in there.

So right now I'm leaning towards the Ikan. It seems to have the most features with it. Although I am tempted by the Marshall because I feel like I could trust it working for me on set no matter what. I guess I need to look into the Ikan warranty.
 
ssvet said:
Using scopes brings your cinematography on a higher level and while one can use Small HD's false colors as a way of measuring exposure, the scopes on the Marshall are industry standard so you'll be confident in knowing your image is going down the pipeline as you exposed it for.
Click to expand...

I agree, having a great monitor takes your filmmaking to a whole new level. You don't really appreciate it or know what to look for until you've done some serious color correction (DaVinci Resolve) or shot something for broadcast TV.
 
FWIW, I looked at the Ikan, and it looks great - on paper. There is a persistent chorus of bad experience, tons of people complaining about quality control and horrendous customers service. Search these forums. It was enough for me to shy away from Ikan. Personally, I'm leaning toward the Marshall, of these options, though I'm waiting with a purchase hoping for more and cheaper. YMMV.
 
OldCorpse said:
FWIW, I looked at the Ikan, and it looks great - on paper. There is a persistent chorus of bad experience, tons of people complaining about quality control and horrendous customers service. Search these forums. It was enough for me to shy away from Ikan. Personally, I'm leaning toward the Marshall, of these options, though I'm waiting with a purchase hoping for more and cheaper. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Well I checked with B&H earlier and the Ikan comes with a 1 year manufacturer warranty. I searched DVXuser and couldn't find the problem threads with Ikan you were talking about. I brought it up to Ikan customer service earlier today and he said on the phone that some problems have been with older models and that the newer models have come a long way and are far superior. But of course they are going to say that on the phone though.

I'm still on the fence, I need to decide by tomorrow and place an order.
 
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I'm trying to decide now between the Marshall LCD70MD-3G and Ikan D7w. FYI for anyone considering the Marshall LCD70MD-3G, it does not come with a battery plate. You have to buy it seperately and attach it yourself. Then buy the battery also. B&H suggested the Marshall Electronics 0071-1303-A plate ($22.94) which allows the use of Sony batteries on the monitor. They have other battery plates you can get, but the guy on the phone said the Sony batteries are large and last a lot longer. The Sony L NP-F970 battery runs around $109 each.

If you search for it, you can get the Ikan D7w7 model IKD7WK which comes with a canon mount and canon battery for the same exact price of $1169. But the sales guy said it uses canon dslr batteries which are much smaller and although convenient if you own canon cameras/batteries, they only last around an hour or so each. Whereas with the Sony batteries you can get 3-4 or so hours out of them. Not sure on the exact specs on the Sony but it's much longer lasting.
 
With a sony plate you could still decide between a larger longer running battery and a more compact shorter running battery. the 970 is the big boy, but the 770 and 570 would fit the same plate, but are smaller and have fewer amp hours.

I've had an earlier Ikan model for a few years (no SDI, no exposure tools) and it has been OK, nothing more nothing less. Batteries tended to fall off the battery plate so they shipped it with a little velcro strap to help keep it on safely. That always seemed a little like a gaffer tape and bailing wire fix that I might come up with on my own :)

When it's released, I'm upgrading to the odyssey from convergent design. I'm getting the 7Q model, but the 7 is around the price point/features that you're looking at. The battery configurations for this one is still a bit of a mystery at this point.
 
Did some more research, apparently what is really important when you shoot outdoors with a monitor, possibly even mount it on a stabilizer, is the Nit count (brightness). Brighter monitors work better outdoors according to the steadicam forums when picking out a monitor.

I found this great video of a guy operating a steadicam with the Ikan and Marshall side by side as he shoots out doors tracking people so you can see how viewable the monitors are outside. The Ikan MD7 on left has 1100 Nit Brightness (no sunhood needed according to Ikan specs on B&H) vs the Marshall 6.5 transflective monitor on right which has 650 Nit brightness.


direct link: https://vimeo.com/60903984


To be fair to Marshall, the above comparison doesn't use their latest models which have higher nits. Just looked it up...

Marshall LCD70MD: 800 Nits Brightness
SmallHD AC7-SDI: 400 Nits Brightness
Ikan D7W-7" 3G-SDI: 400 Nits Brightness
 
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Another cool feature of a monitor is loop through. That allows you to export out an HDMI or SDI-HD connection to a 2nd HD monitor. That might be a monitor to someone pulling focus that is tilting sideways while the other is tilted back for the camera operator. Or it might be ran to another monitor for a director to watch a few feet away.

vid example:

Marshall LCD70MD-3G: has loop through
Ikan D7W-E6 7" 3G-SDI: has loop through
SmallHD A7-SDI: AC7 only has SDI loop-through, not HDMI, HDMI is input only (however SDI loop-through offers longer HD cables because apparently HDMI cords can only be so long, SDI HD cables much longer)
 
Was searching DVXuser on all the monitors and someone posted that the SmallHD A7 is challenging to calibrate out of box to get true colors that match what you see when editing.

Apparently Marshall and Ikan understand the importance of monitor calibration and made videos on how to do it with their monitors..



Searched google and saw this reduser thread mentioning SmallHD monitors are impossible to properly calibrate, so I guess that definitely rules them out for me...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?96539-SmallHD-AC7-OLED-Calibration-Fail
 
I own this Marshall monitor ( without the SDI module ) and could not be happier with it. The 800 nit brightness is very useful in brighter environments. ( this was one of the main reasons why I chose this monitor )

I would also recommend going with the Sony battery plate, as you can buy generic NP-F970 batteries for about $35 each, and these will power this monitor for about 6-8 hours. I prefer the larger NP-F970 batteries over the smaller NP-F550 batteries because the larger batteries last 3 times as long, and they function as a nice handle that you can grip at the back of the monitor when you are positioning it.
 
I managed to snag a Ikan d7W from Adorama when it was on sale for $900.

The one issue I've had is that when the battery is running low, the monitor starts losing the signal like there's a short in the connection. I haven't found anything about this on websites but I'm also not sure if its just something wrong with my monitor. I just never got around to calling Ikan because it's worked great for what I need out of it and it's just a minor inconvenience.

The battery falling out that capt chuck mentioned, has been fixed. The plate attaches to the back of the monitor and the battery is pretty secure, I have yet had a case where it has fallen out. I also rigged my own battery solution that gives me about 7 hours of battery life using this:

http://www.amazon.com/Anker-10000mAh-Multi-Voltage-Camcoders-Recorders/dp/B005NGKR54

I assume this would work with the Marshall but just throwing that out there.
 
Awesome info guys. I'm leaning towards the Marshall this morning because of the 800 nits, reliability, good calibration system and all the extras it has. Although the Ikan seems very attractive, I like how you can view all the scopes on the screen with the Ikan, not sure if the Marshall does that. It's really disappointing how there aren't more videos touring these monitors and what they do and how they look.

Small HD has an amazing marketing campaign for their stuff, tons of videos on youtube for their products. I wish Ikan and Marshall would do similar, they'd probably sell more products that way. I searched youtube for the Marshall LCD70 and there are practically no videos out there on it showing you all the features in a real world environment. They should pay to have some shot, hire a video guy to do them some info styled videos touring the product in great detail.
 
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I own 2 smallHD DP6 monitors and i wish i got TVLogic instead. DP6 is worst than my $200 Liliput if you can believe it, the latitude of smallHD is pretty bad - i honestly have no clue why they are getting such good reviews.
 
I ended up buying the Marshall LCD70MD-3G 7" with a sony battery plate and battery. Will let you guys know how it performs when I get more experience with it.
 
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