Omni-directional for under 200 bucks?

J

jpastuch

Carbonite Member
I'll be shooting a no budget fiction production this summer and need a cheap boom mic that will still produce decent pickup.

I'm looking for any omni-directional mic in the 200 dollar range. Any suggestions? Should I go with a cardriod mic instead?
 
jpastuch said:
I'll be shooting a no budget fiction production this summer and need a cheap boom mic that will still produce decent pickup.

I'm looking for any omni-directional mic in the 200 dollar range. Any suggestions? Should I go with a cardriod mic instead?
Click to expand...

Seconding C2V ... an omni is exactly what you DO NOT want on a boom for dialog.
 
I did a search but I'm not sure if many people are going this cheap on their mics here...but, why I got omnidirectional is because I don't always have the most talented boom operators, they can't always swing it accurately enough to pick up people on a far end of the room, for example. Thus, omnidirectional at least will pick up their voices somewhat if the boom operator isn't accurate or fast enough.

But anyway, thanks for the reccs.
 
jpastuch said:
...but, why I got omnidirectional is because I don't always have the most talented boom operators, they can't always swing it accurately enough to pick up people on a far end of the room, for example. Thus, omnidirectional at least will pick up their voices somewhat if the boom operator isn't accurate or fast enough.
Click to expand...

But an omni will provide terrible sound even if the boom op is on top of things. Remember that any microphone on a boom has an effective working distance of about 3 feet, with anything between 2 and 3 feet pushing the limits.
 
jpastuch said:
Thus, omnidirectional at least will pick up their voices somewhat if the boom operator isn't accurate or fast enough.
Click to expand...

If you're in a situation where the boom needs to basically be in two places at once to record the dialog in a scene, perhaps you should have a second boom up.
 
jpastuch said:
I did a search but I'm not sure if many people are going this cheap on their mics here...but, why I got omnidirectional is because I don't always have the most talented boom operators, they can't always swing it accurately enough to pick up people on a far end of the room, for example. Thus, omnidirectional at least will pick up their voices somewhat if the boom operator isn't accurate or fast enough.

But anyway, thanks for the reccs.
Click to expand...

Then go with a cardioid instead of a Hyper. An Omni will have post cursing your name. Plus you need a little CYA. If the boom op is sloppy then it's the boom ops fault, if you use an omni then the awful sound is all on you. Oktava meets your price point but is not the best choice for an incompetent boom op.
 
jpastuch said:
I did a search but I'm not sure if many people are going this cheap on their mics here...but, why I got omnidirectional is because I don't always have the most talented boom operators, they can't always swing it accurately enough to pick up people on a far end of the room, for example. Thus, omnidirectional at least will pick up their voices somewhat if the boom operator isn't accurate or fast enough.

But anyway, thanks for the reccs.
Click to expand...

An omni won't compensate for inaccurate boom work, multiple subjects, or distance such as "at the far end of the room." Just the reverse, in fact. The less directional the mic the closer it has to be to the subject for decent results. An omni needs to be no more than about 6 inches away from the speaker's mouth if you hope to record clear dialog. Picking up voices "somewhat" isn't an acceptable solution unless you have the budget and facilties for proper ADR - sloppy, marginal sound will ruin a production faster than anything. Audiences will forgive poorly lit, out of focus pictures sooner than they'll forgive flawed sound. As a mentor once told me, "good enough, never is." Another mentor told me that all business decisions boil down to a choice between "make" or "buy." That means in this context that you have to either hire expert boom ops already able to do the job properly (and it takes a lot of skill to do it right) or devote the time it takes to properly train the ops you have, plus doing whatever it takes to obtain equipment adequate to the job at hand. Trust us, putting an omni on a boom and trying to record dialog with it from the far end of the room will make it worse, much much worse, not better.
 
Last edited:
Yeah good points then. On another note, should I keep my current omni-directional mic for recording things like environments, or should I sell it for a few bucks (like 40 or 50) to contribute towards my new one? Can I still get a decent room tone with a cardroid, or is that pretty much what omni is built for.

I was thinking of investing in wirless lavaliers too, but they seem to be much much more expensive (with the whole system factored in).
 
jpastuch said:
Yeah good points then. On another note, should I keep my current omni-directional mic for recording things like environments, or should I sell it for a few bucks (like 40 or 50) to contribute towards my new one? Can I still get a decent room tone with a cardroid, or is that pretty much what omni is built for.
Click to expand...

Room tone MUST be recorded using the same mics as dialog, on the same location, with all the same auxiliary gear (lights, camera, etc.) running. Otherwise, there's no point to room tone. This is normally recorded with everyone standing still at the end of a take.

jpastuch said:
I was thinking of investing in wirless lavaliers too, but they seem to be much much more expensive (with the whole system factored in).
Click to expand...

Lavs are helpful, especially in wider shots. You can always rent for a shoot, and that will cost you much, much less than purchasing.
 
Bravo to you guys for always answering the same ol' questions over and over.

Wish this place went a hair more deeper than the "what recorder can I buy for $50 bux",
or "can i use 42 transmitters with 1 receiver" type questions.
 
On the subject of cardioid mics, there is a reasonable selection of small diaphragm cardioid condensers out there in your price range. A lot of these typically find use as drum overheads.

Shure's KSM109 might be a good choice, the pattern is a little bit tighter than the average cardioid, while still being wider than a super or hyper, and they're not so heavy that the boom op will be plotting your death. The mic has a 15dB pad, but no low cut. They're usually around $180.

AudioTechnica has the AT2021 and AT3031. The 3031 has a low cut and a 10dB pad. It was discontinued recently, so you can find it on clearance in the $170 range. I've only seen the 2021 bundled with the Large Diaphragm 2020 for about $150, and it doesn't have the pad or low cut.

MXL has a decent rep amoung some of the home recording crowd, but I don't have any hands-on experience with those.

I've even had decent results with a pair of Behringer (*GASP*) C2s that I got for like $10 in a pawn shop, but Behringer gear is a serious crap shoot, theres a reason they have a terrible rep.

Whatever you end up using, don't forget the shockmounting and wind protection.
 
I was looking at the OKtava- I don't mind spending the extra 100 bucks because it seems to have a very good following (much like the dvx). How does the discontinued AT3031 stack up? Is Oktava really that good/reliable for the price? Or is AT3031 comparable?
 
May I start by echoing all before and suggesting the forum's sound dvd as an excellent investment - many things you need to know, plus great to show your boom op.


The Oktava is a fantastic mic for the price but an absolute disaster for handling noise with an inexperienced boom op. With luck and perserverance you might be able to score a used AKG blue line hyper (se300b w/ ck93 cap), this would give you the start of a modular system to build on. . . just a thought. The www.taperssection.com forum is one possibility to check for used mics.

And don't forget the mount, wind protection, etc.

Best of luck
 
Last edited:
I'm not trying to be ignorant- but I don't have money for DVDs or books from the forum that tell me all of this stuff. I barely have money for a mic. Oktava seems like a really good mic for the price, but you're right, inexperienced boom handling + touchy mic noise is a problem. So, again, if anyone wants to answer (or link me, I can't find a very extensive comparison) between the Oktava's sound and the AT3031, let me know.

If the Oktava has better sound overall for what I need to do, I'll save up the extra money. If AT3031 is just as good, but simply cheaper because it's discontinued, then I'll go with that because that's about 100 bucks I can invest in other equipment.

Sorry if all of this angers everybody for some reason. You're bound to get similar questions on an audio help forum, and I'm not arguing or rejecting anything here.
 
jpastuch said:
I'm not trying to be ignorant- but I don't have money for DVDs or books from the forum that tell me all of this stuff. I barely have money for a mic. Oktava seems like a really good mic for the price, but you're right, inexperienced boom handling + touchy mic noise is a problem. So, again, if anyone wants to answer (or link me, I can't find a very extensive comparison) between the Oktava's sound and the AT3031, let me know.

If the Oktava has better sound overall for what I need to do, I'll save up the extra money. If AT3031 is just as good, but simply cheaper because it's discontinued, then I'll go with that because that's about 100 bucks I can invest in other equipment.

Sorry if all of this angers everybody for some reason. You're bound to get similar questions on an audio help forum, and I'm not arguing or rejecting anything here.
Click to expand...

The AT3031 is a good mic, I have two of them and like their sound, BUT they are cardioids, not the hypercardioid that is usually used for interior booming. The working distance issue I mentioned before regarding the omni also applies here - a cadioid has to be signifigantly closer to the speaker than does a hypercardioid for the same quality of pickup.

I know you said money is too tight for books but you really really do need to devote some of your assets to "book larnin'," a couple of good references will be a much better investment than a new mic at this stage of the game. Purchasing a copy of Jay Rose's "Producing Great Sound for Film and Video" will be the most productive allocation of your dollars right now. If you have a few more $$, Thomlinson Holman's "Sound for Digital Video" should be your second purchase. (Does the name "Skywalker Sound" ring a bell? Holman is the "TH" in "THX.") By the time you finish reading them, you'll be able to save back the dollars you spent and can make much more informed decisions about the next steps to take. Believe me, a few dollars spent on books today will save you big bucks in the future.
 
pixelated said:
ic for the price but an absolute disaster for handling noise with an inexperienced boom op. With luck and perserverance you might be able to score a used AKG blue line hyper (se300b w/ ck93 cap), this would give you the start of a modular system to build on. . . just a thought. The www.taperssection.com forum is one possibility to check for used mics.
Click to expand...


Does the Oktava mods help with the boom noise?

http://www.oktavamodshop.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_23&products_id=35
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top