Oktava - Without a cap

swiperstopswiping

swiperstopswiping

Well-known member
What happens if you record with an Oktava Mk102 without a hypercardioid cap for example. Obviously I know that it will lose it's "hypercardioid" qualites, but does that mean it will act more like an omni?

Just want that clarified. Thanks
 
You'll get nothing. The "cap" is the capsule, not an external baffle. There's no transducer without a capsule, so nothing at all that turns sound into voltage.
 
I'm not sure if this is a good example.

*I'm not referring to hybrids.

A car without gasoline = Oktava without a cap.
A car with gasoline = Oktava with a cap.
A car with regular grade = Oktava with Omni cap.
A car with plus grade = Oktava with Cardiod cap.
A car with premium grade = Oktava with Hypdercardiod cap.

hehe.
 
No way, Chang!

Don't be ranking the caps that way. Omnis are actually the best-sounding caps; they just aren't suitable for the same applications.

Better yet, say, Hyper is like a motorcycle, card is like a sedan, omni is like a semi. But that's doofy, too! Point is... they're not differentiated by quality, but by the kinds of things they do.


Swiper - there are indeed some mics that use external baffles (which some people even call caps) purely as physical sound-shapers... it's just not the case for these Oktavas!
 
Sorry.

I think I missed driving for awhile.
Thanks for correcting.

Your analogy of the motorcycle, sedan and semi are right on spot!
 
Alan H. Chang said:
I think I missed driving for awhile.
Click to expand...

Sad to say, I've only spent about 30 hours in Northern Cali, and never saw anything. Is S.F. a nice walkable city?
 
Each cap is used for certain occasions.

An omni would work good for situations like recording room-tone and outside recordings. You can nearly capture all the sound coming from all directions equally. A cardiod would be good for recording something more direct compared to an omni. Such as a motorboat leaving dock or a person walking in a hallway. A hyper would be good for recording something pinpoint. It can be a dialogue, a bird chirping on a tree, a cricket rubbing hind legs against body.
 
and what then, is the 'super'?
I dont see it linked with oktava
but I see it linked to shotguns
 
Supercardiod is between cardiod and hypercardiod as far as the directionality goes. Shotguns usually don't fit the standard patterns; they are more sales terms for the shotguns. If you read through the stickies, there are examples of each.
 
Sweet. This is a perfect thread that answers a lot more questions I had. Oh and thanks for the easy-to-understand analogies guys. :-0
 
Ullanta is right on the directional terms of microphones.

I would rank it this way.

1.) Omni
2.) Cardiod
3.) HyperCardiod
4.) Supercardiod/Lobar
5.) Parabolic microphone receivers

Alan
 
ullanta said:
Actually, I think mics called "supercardioid" tend to be more directional than hypercardioids....
Click to expand...
It depends how you define "directional." The polar pattern of a hyper is narrower, so it has more off-axis rejection, while a super is wider, but has a smaller rear pickup pattern. Alan's right in that lobar is more directional than hypercardioid, although as I stated earlier the term supercardioid or supercardioid/lobar (which is like saying you drive a 4-cylinder V8) is often a misnomer on shotguns. A shotgun is the only mic capable of a lobar pattern. So from widest (least diretional) to narrowest (most directional):

1. omnidirectional
2. cardioid
3. supercardioid
4. hybercardioid
5. lobar
6. parabolic

Now this is all "on paper"... I'm sure you can find one brand's super that in practice is more directional than another brands hyper, just like some omni's are slightly directional.
 
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no wonder this is confusing....read this I copied and pasted

Lobar Polar Pattern
A type of polar, or pickup pattern found in many shotgun microphones. A microphone with a lobar polar pattern has the highest possible directivity. Lobar polar pattern is often referred to as: Supercardioid/Lobar, or Hypercardioid/Lobar polar pattern, but both Supercardioid and Hypercardioid patterns are slightly less directional than the lobar pattern. A lobar pick-up pattern is achieved with a shotgun microphone only.

what is the derivation of the word 'lobar'
 
Just an image of some polar patterns from http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/audio/imgaud/micpattern.gif:

micpattern.gif



A Lobar pattern is something like: http://www.sounderpro.com.tw/Reviw/microphone/Images/shotgun.gif:
shotgun.gif

and I think the name derives from the little side lobes.
 
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That gasoline example does not work, as different grades of gasoline have exactly the same amount of "power" in them, just the octane rating is different. Higher tuned engines need higher octane gas, but the gas itself does not have any more "power" (could have less in reality). Octava without a cap is more like a car without an engine...

Omni microphones have the best and flatest response and no bass rejection (best omnis go down to 5 Hz). For that reason they are used for classical music recordings. More directivity means worse flatness and less bass.
 
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the lobar pattern is, to the best of my knowledge, a primary contributer in shotguns sounding poor indoors as they have strange rear and side pickups at strange frequencies - Correct or incorrect Ullanta? (Long time no see, by the way. Hope you're well)

tim
 
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