Oktava MK012, opinions on self noise

[sandisfield]

I have never had any noise issues with my Oktava nor have I measured it in any way except to use it up against my Schoeps mics. It compared very favorably considering the price difference. Very favorably.

 

[DrDave]

The Oktava is not that noisy. Any mods, either to the recording gear or to the mic, will not affect the noise floor. They modded mic preamp will give slightly better sound, with better bass response--often not an issue in video, say of dialog.
However, is it is quiet as a Sennheiser MKH 40? Absolutely not. The Studio Projects B1 ($99) will also beat it for noise, but is too heavy to put on a boom.

 

[Jema]

Just revisiting to say that our school did buy an Oktava a few weeks back, and we are currently using it with an invision 7 shock mount. I haven't done any comparative tests, but my impression after using it frequently these past weeks is it sounds very good for the price. Self noise is clearly audible in somewhat quiet locations, just below of what I would find acceptible for the usage, but fortunatly of a character that isn't very distracting. Even with the invision shockmount, it is very susceptible to handling noise, and you have to be very careful. Using it without a low cut filter before the preamp it would be very easy to overload it. In conclusion it's a good low cost alternative, especially as a plant mic, but will need a very good shockmount for use on a boom.

 

[Noiz2]

Jema,

There are a few things I would add. I'm the first to say use what you like, so if the Oktava doesn't do it for you certainly don't use it. But I'm an FX person and not a great production boom op and I can not get a lot of handling noise when booming with an Oktava. So while the Oktava IS more sensitive than some mics it's not that hard to not get a bunch of handling noise when booming. It does take some experience/ practice.

I would probably rarely record production with out a low cut (trust me post doesn't want it) but I have recorded a lot of FX with out the low cut and yes that will make handling a lot touchier. But I'm using the low cut in the mic preamp. With or with out it I have not had overloading problems. This makes me question what mic pre you were using because it sounds like part of the problem.

The self nose has not been an issue even when recording quiet BG's. That may have to do with a lot of factors from differences it the actual mics to, I was going to say differences in our hearing but I was recording mostly for others so? It could also be the signal chain?


You mention school and your in Sweden, so did you by any chance have a class from Ann Kroeber?

 

[Jema]

I completely agree that you should use what you like, and in my limited experience and with the equipment I have access to, I try to do so. Regarding the handling noise, I think this is a matter of what an acceptible amount is. I use it with a mixpre, and since a lot of the dialogue in the last few films have been very quiet, I've had the gain mostly between 75-100 %. When I say that you have to be careful not to cause handling noise, I really meant any audible handling noise at all, no matter how small. For me, it sometimes only takes a small finger movement to cause this at these levels, so maybe this is not a big issue when it comes to more normal levels and how it will actually be used in post. I hope not.

Regarding the low cut, I always use one if available, and I currently use the one in the mixpre. I only mentioned it because at one point I wanted to be extra mobile and go directly in on the recorder, and that didn't have a low cut (at least not an analogue one). Normal movements at these high levels caused high enough bass frequencies from handling that the preamp almost started distorting the signal!

What is a BG? I've never heard it before.

I'm sorry to say I have not had the opportunity to have a class with Ann Kroeber, though I really hope to some day.

 

[Noiz2]

Regarding the low cut, I always use one if available, and I currently use the one in the mixpre. I only mentioned it because at one point I wanted to be extra mobile and go directly in on the recorder, and that didn't have a low cut (at least not an analogue one). Normal movements at these high levels caused high enough bass frequencies from handling that the preamp almost started distorting the signal!

That's weird. I used them with the mixPre and haven't had that issue at all. There is one warning with the MixPre and Oktava combo and that is you need to use 48V. If you go with the lower voltage especially if you don't have a low cut in you can get this low end oscillation they call "motorboating". It has to do with the amount of power the mic draws and the phantom supply in the MixPre. THey may have fixed that when they did the redesign but?

What is a BG? I've never heard it before.

BackGrounds, as in ambience. The semi convention is that ambience is a very neutral "background" where if you call it a Background it's more specific. So say a quiet beach with out waves might be an "ambience" and a carnival crowd would be a "background". But those lines are very soft.

I'm sorry to say I have not had the opportunity to have a class with Ann Kroeber, though I really hope to some day.

She's a good friend and I know she taught at a film school in Sweden and was hoping to go back. She has used Oktavas as backups for her Schoeps.

But you are right that they are quite sensitive to handling noise. When I'm booming I wear riding gloves and that will help a lot with the finger sticking to the pole issue. My experience has been that the Oktavas are not a lot more susceptible to handling noise than the Schoeps. There are mics that are a lot less sensitive I know but I don't have much experience with them. I like the sound so...

Depending on the vintage of the MixPre there was on the earliest models an internal jumper that changed the gain on the pre. You might want to check that that is at the higher setting.

And you may just need to get closer. I'm always surprised at how close you can usually get and how big an improvement it makes. Well not really surprised but as some knowledgeable mixer once told me if the boom doesn't get in the shot at least once your not working close enough".

With any pre having the gain over ~75% is going to start to add noticeable noise. The MixPre is pretty good but you will hear added noise if your working at 100% gain. That may be what your calling self noise. On a lot of mixers you can really hear the noise just go up in the last part of the gain.

 

[Jema]

That's weird. I used them with the mixPre and haven't had that issue at all. There is one warning with the MixPre and Oktava combo and that is you need to use 48V. If you go with the lower voltage especially if you don't have a low cut in you can get this low end oscillation they call "motorboating". It has to do with the amount of power the mic draws and the phantom supply in the MixPre. THey may have fixed that when they did the redesign but?

I might have been a little unclear - I normally use the low cut in the mixpre with the oktava, without problems. Once I tried to use it without the mixpre, straight into the recorder that didn't have a low cut, and that gave me problems.

Thanks for the tip about the riding gloves. I only use thin wool gloves outside where thick ones would be a bother, but riding or golf gloves might be a good idea. I'll look into that - I hate it when fingers stick to the boom. I also sent a mail to sound devices asking them about the internal jumper - hadn't heard of it before.

And yes, getting close is one of the two or three most important things about booming, and usually the one I preach about when someone about to boom for the first time asks me for advice. I almost always lie on the brink of dipping into the frame.

I think Kroeber have held lectures mainly in Göteborg, lying on the other side of the country from where I am. I would really like to meet her and learn more about how she works. I wonder if she takes in trainees...

With any pre having the gain over ~75% is going to start to add noticeable noise. The MixPre is pretty good but you will hear added noise if your working at 100% gain. That may be what your calling self noise. On a lot of mixers you can really hear the noise just go up in the last part of the gain.

This is something I hear different things about from different sources. Some, like you, say that you really start to hear the preamp noise if you drive it really high, while others say that this is just an uneven increase of gain toward the end that simply makes it easier to hear the noise, but that the snr is the same or better - you just need to lower the level of the headphones/speakers an equivalent amount. I haven't tested to see where the truth lies, but I'm inclined to believe in the latter as most preamps are tested at full gain because it gives the best snr.