Okay to use Slog2 with the internal codec instead of raw recording?

A

anchoricex

Member
Is Slog2 only optimized for raw recording? I enjoy the colors of log picture profiles a lot, really wish that Slog2 had a lower base ISO but I understand this was necessary in order to increase DR. I don't see myself using an Odyssey 7Q any time soon (financial reasons, merely a hobbyist)
 
I've used Slog2 quite a bit with the SD card. I've gotten some pretty great results with it. My main recommendation is to expose to the right (ETTR, if you see anyone else mention it on the forum) of the histogram. That is, overexpose slightly. The base ISO is 2000, but it should almost be treated like it's ISO 640, i.e. expose brighter and then drag the image back down in post. When I've done this, it's cleaned up the noisy shadow area and given me a nice image. Just keep an eye out that you aren't clipping the highlights.
 
I have seen quite a few people recommend to ETTR with Slog2. Do you typically use zebras to make sure nothings overexposed, and consider whatever exposure doesn't show zebras on the viewfinder a good spot to shoot at ?
 
Any tool works, really. Zebras, histogram (don't let any of the white hit the right side), or waveform if any of your devices have it (I've got an alphatron EVF and the 7Q). I actually just recently picked up my first light meter because I saw someone on here talking about using theirs to ensure they are consistently exposing to the right. That's been one drawback of the fuzzy ETTR rule, you may be inconsistently overexposing between shots. I'm hoping the light meter helps eliminate that.
 
Ahhh I see. If you're inconsistently overexposing, in post you should be able to bring the exposure down to the same desired levels (granted I'd be eyeballing it) right? Is a lot of detail lost when you ETTR? I apologize for the noob questions, this has been a huge learning experience for me.

PS what kind of light meter did you get ?

Appreciate all the info btw, you've been very helpful!
 
anchoricex said:
Ahhh I see. If you're inconsistently overexposing, in post you should be able to bring the exposure down to the same desired levels (granted I'd be eyeballing it) right? Is a lot of detail lost when you ETTR? I apologize for the noob questions, this has been a huge learning experience for me.

PS what kind of light meter did you get ?

Appreciate all the info btw, you've been very helpful!
Click to expand...

No detail is lost. In fact, you do it to maximise the detail: ETTR means exposing so that the very brightest areas are just about to hit whit clip (but don't). At the other end this opens up the shadows, pulling some of the darker areas that would have hit white clip (if the mid tones were exposed 'correctly') out of black clip. Clipping at either end us what causes detail loss.

BTW, if you like the 'log look' you don't have to shoot log, you can just lower contrast and saturation in post (although you won't get the extra stops of dynamic range that way).
 
I shot this using internal S-Log 2 and it came out nice


https://vimeo.com/75311478

The thing is, with S-Log 2 internally, you are very limited in how you can grade it because the codec falls apart really fast. You basically have to keep it log-ish looking. You cannot push the colors much. With the 7Q, this is not a problem.

Also, I've noticed that exposure is really critical and un-forgiving with AVCHD S-Log. You have to nail it or else it gets noisy really quick. With the 7Q S-Log, it's much more forgiving. You can under expose more with the 7Q and still get a good result (at least by my noise tolerance). Not so with AVCHD, a bit of under exposure and the image is noise city. Also, the noise on the 7Q looks a lot better. The AVCHD S-Log noise has a different / less pleasing look.
 
Here's one I did. I don't think they graded it at all as the director fell in love with the log look. He 'loved the pastel colours'.

 
That's pretty good stuff Gene. Have you done much similar in 2K RAW yet? Will be interesting to see how the upcoming prores looks too, particularly the super sampled 4K to HD and how far that can be pushed in the grade.
 
Colinelves said:
No detail is lost. In fact, you do it to maximise the detail: ETTR means exposing so that the very brightest areas are just about to hit whit clip (but don't). At the other end this opens up the shadows, pulling some of the darker areas that would have hit white clip (if the mid tones were exposed 'correctly') out of black clip. Clipping at either end us what causes detail loss.

BTW, if you like the 'log look' you don't have to shoot log, you can just lower contrast and saturation in post (although you won't get the extra stops of dynamic range that way).
Click to expand...

Ahh that makes sense. Also I've given it a shot in post multiple times but I've always been left with overly saturated greens, it's always the greens haha. Can't get it quite right but it's definitely worth another shot if it means I get to shoot at a lower ISO in another PP and after editing come out with the same tones.

gene_can_sing said:
I shot this using internal S-Log 2 and it came out nice


https://vimeo.com/75311478

The thing is, with S-Log 2 internally, you are very limited in how you can grade it because the codec falls apart really fast. You basically have to keep it log-ish looking. You cannot push the colors much. With the 7Q, this is not a problem.

Also, I've noticed that exposure is really critical and un-forgiving with AVCHD S-Log. You have to nail it or else it gets noisy really quick. With the 7Q S-Log, it's much more forgiving. You can under expose more with the 7Q and still get a good result (at least by my noise tolerance). Not so with AVCHD, a bit of under exposure and the image is noise city. Also, the noise on the 7Q looks a lot better. The AVCHD S-Log noise has a different / less pleasing look.
Click to expand...

That worked out wonderfully. When you shot yours did you ETTR ? Has anyone ever had problems ETTR and bringing it down in post ?

Really appreciate all you bring to the forums regarding the FS700 Gene. Thank you for this!

Colinelves said:
Here's one I did. I don't think they graded it at all as the director fell in love with the log look. He 'loved the pastel colours'.

Click to expand...

Wow that turned out great! This was all straight to SD? I'm assuming this was all ETTR ? Thank you for sharing!
 
anchoricex said:
Ahh that makes sense. Also I've given it a shot in post multiple times but I've always been left with overly saturated greens, it's always the greens haha. Can't get it quite right but it's definitely worth another shot if it means I get to shoot at a lower ISO in another PP and after editing come out with the same tones.
Click to expand...

How are you handling it in post? If you're applying a standard Slog LUT they tend to assume Sgamma as well, meaning it comes out over saturated.

anchoricex said:
That worked out wonderfully. When you shot yours did you ETTR ? Has anyone ever had problems ETTR and bringing it down in post ?

Really appreciate all you bring to the forums regarding the FS700 Gene. Thank you for this!



Wow that turned out great! This was all straight to SD? I'm assuming this was all ETTR ? Thank you for sharing!
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was all straight to SD - I shot it last autumn I think.

I honestly can't remember how I exposed it. I think in some places I ETTR - but actually, that was the bits with the sun where I was stopping down (getting noisy blacks!) trying not to blow out too much of the sky) but I mostly just exposed it to look 'right' on the monitor. However when I was playing around with slog2 I found there wasn't a problem overexposing and bringing down. Raising saturation caused more problems.
 
I too do not have the 7Q as I am waiting for them to offer the ProRes option. But I do have the hardware upgrade to my cam. I just did a bunch of shooting in several different Picture Profiles that are all in this edit. I would say 25-30% of these shots where done with SLOG2, 15-20% shot with Nlog designed by Noah Yaun-Vogal a dvxuser here, and the rest filmed in Doug Jensen's recommended setting for the FS700 that is not a LOG profile. All my testing was outside so the next test will have to focus on interior shots. The very very little I have tested with SLOG2 inside with AVCHD has not looked good. Outside though, can be pretty glorious right out of the gate.

The thing I wanted to show though by posting this video is I found that I could actually bring back in quiet a bit of color to the Log profiles even though it was filmed only AVCHD. I could bring more saturation into Noah's than the SLOG2 but SLOG2 really still had quiet a bit of flexibility to it and carried it's own look that I very much enjoyed. There was a lot of noise in certain shots with SLOG2 but once I crushed the mids in post, I was able to get rid of it in almost all the shots and the end result only added to a really cool look. I found it very hard to find SLOG2 examples filmed in AVCHD that had the color pushed back into it and for me it was the first thing I wanted to know when I got my cam back as I personally like pretty saturated looks.

Have a look at how all these shots blended together with two of the profiles having been log profiles that were heavily graded with saturation.

SLOG2 / Doug Jensen Profile / Noah Yaun-Vogel Nlog / all filmed internally

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