Ok, ok, throw me a bone here.

M

Masterfly

New member
Being really new to the program, I've come here in search of help! I've used AE7 a bit, it seems like a great tool to master, only time consuming! I've personally edited all films in Vegas. I'm trying to understand something, and forgive me if a question like this could be answered by Google, because as it stands I'm just not finding the answers.

I'm exploring AE7, now, this isn't a full blown editing program is it? Is this program simply for effects? I'm trying to edit the movies, but the hassle of rendering an uncompressed file from Vegas into AE, then back out of AE with the effect into Vegas seems like a time consuming pain in the neck. Is this the "normal" way to edit in AE7, or am I completely missing something obvious here? The rendering is awfully slow, and don't get me started on the no audio feature. The 0 keypad doesn't count, bleh!

Vegas feels like a borderline learning program at best, but nothing I could ever take seriously. I've become accustomed to using the interface and quick features that Vegas offers. Too bad AE is in another boat. A boat of frustration and complaining that I bark out when my computer can't handle it very well.

I suppose what it comes down to is I need to understand the basics of the basics of this program. For someone who's utterly new, the writing just isn't written on the wall.

Again, sorry if I'm yelling out the obvious, I think I need to understand the details of what to properly edit a raw file in and what to do if I want a specific file with effects on it without having to render repeatedly between programs.

AE7 is where I should be focusing my skills. The beginners learning curve isn't straightening on this program, unfortunately. :(
 
Not just for effects, but definitely not for editing. I couldn't tell you all that it can do, because I haven't really used it.
 
Masterfly said:
I'm trying to edit the movies, but the hassle of rendering an uncompressed file from Vegas into AE, then back out of AE with the effect into Vegas seems like a time consuming pain in the neck. Is this the "normal" way to edit in AE7, or am I completely missing something obvious here?
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That is the workflow (at least the way i use it). AE is not ideal for lots of edits.

Cut in Vegas, export, effect in AE, export back. Yes it can take time. Part of learning AE is learning how to streamline your workflow and make it efficient. Perhaps you need a faster system? For faster RAM previews drop your viewing resolution down to "Third" if you didn't already know that.

Oh and of course check out the sticky with all the tutorials. Learn by doing. Have fun!
 
arges03 said:
That is the workflow (at least the way i use it). AE is not ideal for lots of edits.
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Ahh, ok. I've seen some tutorials and read a few documents but none of them actually said anything about the general workflow of the program. Especially anything official from Adobe, it's mostly "this program is SO powerful, you can literally ..."

I suppose seeing the answer from folks who know what they're doing is all I needed. My biggest gripe with the program is trying to time the effect out with the sound. I'm on an old 3.4ghz, the rendering process is slow and this becomes tedious. I had to discover if there was another way at getting around this. You've cleared the workflow up for me. There's no hope in my case :)

Thanks a lot for the replies.
 
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If you're looking for editing software, Premiere Pro works GREAT with After Effects. You can open Premiere Pro projects IN After Effects. You can even copy and paste between programs. :)
 
Masterfly said:
The rendering is awfully slow, and don't get me started on the no audio feature. The 0 keypad doesn't count, bleh!
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Do you mean that you don't use the 0 keypad? That is for doing a RAM previewing and that's how you see your results in AE without having to actually render out a seperate file. AE loads your frames into your computer's RAM and plays back from that. It is in no way a realtime program like Vegas or other editing softwares.

Now, for what AE can do...well it's a long list, but here goes: motion graphics/animation, compositing for VFX, color correction, effects for VFX, and other various post-processing duties. In reality, you should decide which area you want to focus on then dive into a few books. Below are some titles for various categories of what AE can do:

Compositing/VFX: After Effects Studio Techniques

Motion graphics/animation: Creating Motion Graphics with After Effects

Effects/color correction/composting/video stuff/all around good book: DV Rebel's Guide
 
Oh I definitely use the 0 keypad. Seeing as there's no other way to listen to the audio, I don't think I could go without that number. What I was getting at is my computer renders the files with any type of effect very slowly so pressing that number to see if my effect lined up with the audio is TEDIOUS. It really gets to me but I have no other options. Except the option tommy listed to me, so I guess I do have another option. Premiere sounds like a quick and easy way to swap files without having to re-rendering the footage to continue editing it in Vegas.

Syncing is a wonderful thing in Vegas, spacebar presses and some audio and that's all there is to it. The filters aren't exactly state of the art, it's quite a drawback in the program. This could be my way of saying I'm really new.

I do like the power of AE, it's really a workhouse but the rendering to have to see the effect is the new guys nightmare.

That's basically my grief with the program. I had to post to see if there was a work around with a solution to the workflow and it looks like my best option might be Premiere. Thanks for the suggestion. Otherwise I may in fact never edit a video again. :)


Thanks for the links loop.
 
The workflow I use is to cut my film together, then bring it into AE for color correction/etc.. all the effects shots are added within AE and never brought back into the NLE.

The final result comes directly out of AE, because it'll do 32bit color, whereas the NLE won't. ;)
 
What you need to understand is that AE (and most compositing apps) don't work in realtime. You are not rendering, you are loading the frames into RAM to preview, doing a...wait for it...RAM preview. AE has been around for a while, and it has always worked this way, long before NLE's like Vegas became realtime.

It sounds like you may need more RAM to play with AE more efficiently. It's a complex program and there are ways to speed up your workflow, but you will always have to preview as such. Using Premiere to go back and forth might take just as long if you have a slow computer.
 
I understand that there's a ram preview, I figured this was a mini version of a rendering preview so I continued to call it that, but I do see now that it doesn't work in realtime which is what makes it a pain in the neck for me to use. I assumed it was rendering (into the ram) each time I did a slight change to the raw footage instead of loading new frames into the ram. Funny, whatever I'm trying to say, I got that it went into the ram but I didn't know it wasn't working in realtime in any case.

I'd rather update my processor and mobo to increase functionality on my part. :) Having more ram won't increase my preview performance, will it? Correct me if I'm wrong, I know that having faster ram would make a difference but in my situation I could definitely use a processor update first. An improvement like that would do me wonders, so I need to mark that one off the list.

Thanks for clearing up that it loads individual frames instead of rendering. I think what it comes down to is... this is slow..
 
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It's more likely that a video card upgrade and more ram would increase performance before a processor upgrade.. unless you put a significantly faster processor in. ;)
 
Well technically it is rendering the frames into RAM, but usually it's more clear to call "hitting the 0 key" RAM previewing, and use the term rendering for when you're outputting a seperate file to disk. This will keep it clear for those that use AE to answer your questions more effectively.

RAM is the number one best thing you can buy when working in AE, the more the better and it never hurts to have "too much". Obviously processor would be a close second, but most modern midrange processors are more than enough to get through AE. Keep in mind, something with your workflow/process could be slowing down your previews as well. It's a delicate balance in AE to find that sweet spot, but in most cases I'll work through something with just scrubbing the timeline, then get to a point where I can stand up and stretch for a minute while I wait on a preview. Making sure your pref's are right helps as well.
 
If you need to sync effects with audio, use the numpad '.' key to preview just audio. Also, select the audio track in the timeline and press 'L' twice to bring up a sample plot of the audio levels, which will help in timing to major beats or sound spikes.

AE, like any prosumer or professional program, is a bit of a learning curve, but once you are competent in the program, you'll be amazed by the power it has.
 
Ahh, ok, thanks a lot guys. I'll look into a ram upgrade, mine is ready to kick the bucket anyways. I was considering a dual core of some sort. I could wait a little longer and watch the prices as they drop. Keep in mind I'm still on that single core from the stone age, I'm very much ready to ditch the AGP board and upgrade to something a little more realistic for editing.

I'll have to look into the preferences and check around for a suitable workflow process on my machine.

I was never sure which books to read as some authors out there put more time into their market instead of really teaching their art. I appreciate the recommendations. I'm sure I'll bring up more questions in the future.


Edit: Thanks Sean for the tip on audio levels. What I'm going to spend some time doing is, as they say, ReadingTFM. I think my original concern with not being able to play in realtime was more confusing than anything, as the program as all this power and yet it's really mind boggling for someone to try to sync up levels with the amount of time it ends up taking is just a brain fry.

So, I'm sure I'll get past the first hoops and get right into the workflow. You'll catch me complaining in the future after I've gotten to an effect that will most likely fail and in turn cause blood to shoot out my ears.
 
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One thing I like to do when syncing with audio is putting markers on my audio layer to know where the cue points start. You do this by pressing the * on the keypad. You can also hold down Ctrl/Cmd and click the playhead a bit and it will preview the audio around the playhead for a few frames for precision work.
 
oneinfiniteloop said:
One thing I like to do when syncing with audio is putting markers on my audio layer to know where the cue points start. You do this by pressing the * on the keypad. You can also hold down Ctrl/Cmd and click the playhead a bit and it will preview the audio around the playhead for a few frames for precision work.
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You learn something everyday... cool tip!
 
Creating Motion Graphics with After Effects by Trish and Chris Meyer - CMP Books is the absolute best you can get for AE. There are 2 books. They are not up to date for CS3 but they teach the fundamentals that every AE user needs to know and I highly recommend them.

As for workflow, I hate doing audio in AE. I work in Avid then export a Quick Time reference to AE, do whatever effects I need to then bring it back to Avid for finishing. Premiere is much easier to go back and forth in. If you can't afford Premiere, you will have to master importing and exporting from AE. Master that and knowing what to do for the type of project you are working on, you are halfway there.

Get both of those books, sit down at AE and in a few days you will be doing pretty good. Also, reading through the list of keyboard shortcuts in the Help file is a good place to start learning what the program is capable of.
 
I would wait on getting the Creating Motion Graphics book until the CS3 version comes out. They've condensed both books into one with the new updated info. No reason to buy 2 books when you can wait a minute and get both in one.
 
A real life saver is that you don't have to render to get a Vegas project into After Effects. Just export as a .aaf file and your vegas project will be imported with every edit having it's own track. Why not just finish in After Effects also and only do one render at the end when you're done for max quality. For syncing sound I would suggest rendering a lesser quality video clip from AE to Vegas, then add your sound effects and then export only the .wav back into AE and then do the final render.

I would hold off on buying a whole new computer just yet, I still use my 2.0 Ghz 526 ram computer for all my graphics and sound work and it still works excellent, I don't think a new computer will help you much if you still don't know how to optimize your workflow.
 
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