GH4 OIS Jitters Owners' Poll

[blazer003]

First, by micro jitters we mean the camera is completely still, but the image jumps around, or when it's panning around the image is constantly jittering around with slight variations between every frame. We are not talking about a slow pan where everything is smooth and then the camera jumps to catch up after its stabilization buffer runs out.

I want to post this to get a sense of which lenses are experience issues and how prevolant. I'm doing this because I see some post, "My 35-100 has no issues" but others post "All 35-100 have this issue." Some say the 12-35s experience the issue even after firmware update, while others say the firmware update fixes it. I'm assuming we all have a little of our work online, so any links to examples of clean or jittery footage would be great as well. I emailed Panasonic saying that I wanted to buy a 35-100 but I'd seen a lot of issues with stabilization in video. I got an email back that they were unaware of any issues with the OIS. I sent them a link to a thread at PV with examples and have not heard back again yet (granted I emailed last Wednesday and it was Thanksgiving weekend, so may still hear from them.)

I have the 14-140 F4.0-5.6 (MkI) and the original 14-42 F3.5 and there is no jitter in either.

 

[c3hammer]

I have both the 14-42 II kit lens and the 100-300 and neither show micro jitters. I will never contend that Panasonic has the best OIS in their lenses, but this whole micro jitter issue is way over blown. These little tiny cams can not possibly be as smooth as cams like a Cinema EOS, Sony F, Red or Arri. They weight 1/4 to 1/8th of any of those other cams, and triple that weight factor if those monsters are using cine glass. If you want perfection like that just bolt a 9 lbs weight to the bottom of the GH4 and all those micro jitters will be history just like with all the other pigs available out there.

Put the damn thing on a set of good sticks or a proper mechanical stabilizer and the GH4 is incredible. Stop trying to compare a 1.25 lbs body to one that is 8 lbs before glass. It's just a different realm and the reason some of us are so enamored with these things. The ability to carry three or four lenses, tripod, fluid head, stabilizer, audio gear and a beast of a 4K video/stills body that weights less than 10 lbs total is it's main advantage.

Additionally I don't think it's fair to compare cams in 1080 vs. 4K in such a light weight package. The micro jitter in 4K are a few pixels and less than a pixel in 1080. Software stabilize then downscale to 1080 and compare. We're comparing apples and oranges for stabilization purposes. If I soften 1080 GH4 footage to look like a 5D3 with twice the weight added to the body, I think you'll find this micro jitter issue doesn't exist there either. You can't see micro jitters when you have 3 or 4 pixel blur in 1080. Show some detail in 4K with those things and then make your judgment. It's something other cams on the market simply can't do and we're comparing to vapor ware.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Boon]

I don't think the micro issue is overblown. I would say the OIS quality is inconsistent amongst the Panasonic lens. I've the 14-42mm, 14-140mm (V1), 12-35mm, 42.5mm, 35-100mm and the 100-300mm.
The OIS on the cheaper 14-42mm and 100-300mm will outperform the much more expensive 35-100mm any day. My friends copy of the new 14-140mm (V2) also exhibits the same OIS issue.

 

[Cosimo Bullo]

I've had good luck with the stock 14-42 lenses and the 14-140 mk2 (though problems with the Mk1).

The FZ1000 is also remarkably smooth for those looking for a big, fast (not wide) zoom in 4k.

 

[Vesku]

I have both the 14-42 II kit lens and the 100-300 and neither show micro jitters. I will never contend that Panasonic has the best OIS in their lenses, but this whole micro jitter issue is way over blown. These little tiny cams can not possibly be as smooth as cams like a Cinema EOS, Sony F, Red or Arri. They weight 1/4 to 1/8th of any of those other cams, and triple that weight factor if those monsters are using cine glass. If you want perfection like that just bolt a 9 lbs weight to the bottom of the GH4 and all those micro jitters will be history just like with all the other pigs available out there.

I have bolted a monopod or heavy weight to my GH4 and 14-140 v2 kit and the micro jitter is always there at 14mm. Only a good tripod helps. On the other hand if I use GH4 and very light 14-42mm I there is absolutely no jitter handheld.

 

[gaddster]

I have gh4 with firmware 2.0 and 12-35mm f2.8 firmware 1.2 and not had any problems.

Is there any specific test OR specific settings I can run to try and emulate the 'Jitters'?

 

[brudney]

14-140 mkI and no jitter.

 

[blazer003]

I have both the 14-42 II kit lens and the 100-300 and neither show micro jitters. I will never contend that Panasonic has the best OIS in their lenses, but this whole micro jitter issue is way over blown.

Additionally I don't think it's fair to compare cams in 1080 vs. 4K in such a light weight package. The micro jitter in 4K are a few pixels and less than a pixel in 1080. Software stabilize then downscale to 1080 and compare. We're comparing apples and oranges for stabilization purposes. If I soften 1080 GH4 footage to look like a 5D3 with twice the weight added to the body, I think you'll find this micro jitter issue doesn't exist there either. You can't see micro jitters when you have 3 or 4 pixel blur in 1080. Show some detail in 4K with those things and then make your judgment. It's something other cams on the market simply can't do and we're comparing to vapor ware.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I'm glad your lenses don't have any micro jitter, but my opinion is that you're glossing over the issue. I do not own a lens that is shown to have micro jitter problems, so I don't have first hand experience, but just from examples I've seen others post I think that for those that have the problem, it is quite major. I would have sent a lens back straight away that had the jittering problems in some of the footage posted. You talk about blurring footage, and not expecting good video stabilization out of these lenses, but as many have posted, the older Mega OIS do not exhibit this problem, and who wants to blur footage and work hard to correct a problem that the less expensive of their lenses do not exhibit.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong. It's your opinion, I just disagree from what I've seen.

 

[blazer003]

I have gh4 with firmware 2.0 and 12-35mm f2.8 firmware 1.2 and not had any problems.

Is there any specific test OR specific settings I can run to try and emulate the 'Jitters'?

Unfortunately, or fortunately, again, I don't have a lens with micro jitter problems, but it seems the best way is to set it on telephoto end and try to keep it very still, but still handheld. Maybe on a tripod would work too.

Refer to this post to see some good examples of the micro jitter that people are experiencing.

 

[c3hammer]

...You talk about blurring footage, and not expecting good video stabilization out of these lenses...

Blazer, I think you missed my point. Canon OIS lenses seem to work rather well compared to some of the Panasonic OIS lenses. I believe that this comparison is invalid because canon footage is so soft and only 1080. Make Canon footage as sharp as the GH4 and 4k and we'd see their OIS might not look as good as it does. I wasn't suggesting softening in any way. Simply that we have an expectation of equal OIS when that is nearly impossible given the radical difference in detail obtained between the two systems mentioned above.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Vesku]

OIS jitter looks like the advertize banner in this webpage. Scroll down and you find a jittery banner in the right side of the page.

http://m43photo.blogspot.fi/

 

[blazer003]

Blazer, I think you missed my point. Canon OIS lenses seem to work rather well compared to some of the Panasonic OIS lenses. I believe that this comparison is invalid because canon footage is so soft and only 1080. Make Canon footage as sharp as the GH4 and 4k and we'd see their OIS might not look as good as it does. I wasn't suggesting softening in any way. Simply that we have an expectation of equal OIS when that is nearly impossible given the radical difference in detail obtained between the two systems mentioned above.

Cheers,
Pete

Oh, I see. Yes, I would agree that that may be the case, but that doesn't explain why my old 14-140 that I got way back when I bought the GH1 (before it was hacked! ) or my super cheap little 14-42 have much better (and I would say very good overall compared to other IS) image stabilization while these much more expensive and newer lenses have issues. Whether they're acceptable issues or not is certainly up to the individual. I really want to get a 12-35 and 35-100 set because of the constant F2.8 as much as anything, but I love the IS on my 14-140 for most handheld work, and can't bring myself to purchase them until I have a handle of this issue.

My plan, regardless is to go down to my local camera store and have them order it if they don't have it (they rarely stock Panasonic Lumix stuff, though they did stock the GH4 after a while) and make sure they know that this lens has had this issue and that I will test for it and then return it (or probably just hand it back to them, as I can test it in the store).

 

[Vesku]

There has been lots of talking about that jitter issue in many forums. Still only relative few people has really complained or reported the jitter. Could it be possible that there is still plenty of "good" lenses. I am curious if someone can truly show and proof having non jittering 14-140 v2 in stationary handheld video.

 

[blazer003]

There has been lots of talking about that jitter issue in many forums. Still only relative few people has really complained or reported the jitter. Could it be possible that there is still plenty of "good" lenses. I am curious if someone can truly show and proof having non jittering 14-140 v2 in stationary handheld video.

This is what I was hoping as well, with the poll. Find out if there are a lot of good lenses, or mostly bad, or all bad.

 

[kb99]

I emailed Panasonic saying that I wanted to buy a 35-100 but I'd seen a lot of issues with stabilization in video. I got an email back that they were unaware of any issues with the OIS. I sent them a link to a thread at PV with examples and have not heard back again yet (granted I emailed last Wednesday and it was Thanksgiving weekend, so may still hear from them.)

A few weeks ago I emailed Panasonic about this problem with my 35-100. We went back and forth every few days, them asking me to supply more and more information (lens model #, serial #, firmware version, date purchased -- as I registered my lens, this info should already have been available to them, but ...). It's now been over a week since I last heard from them. They have yet to make any statement on the problem. I emailed them on Thursday asking what's happened (since before now, it had been only a few days between replies). Still no response.

I am quite disappointed with Panasonic's handling of this.

 

[Vesku]

I too have an email discussion with Panasonic customer service in Finland. They always answer that they dont know the issue and they will ask they engineers about it. Several weeks of waiting and nothing new.

 

[Dr_Jon]

I wouldn't describe what I see on my 35-100 as a micro-jitter but more an occasional shimmer (but not a rare shimmer, alas, it'll often crop up even in fairly short videos). However it is very annoying. It was suggested to me that it was due to a lack of movement range in the stabiliser and couldn't be fixed, but I have no idea whether that's true.

I find the 12-35 with the v1.2 firmware to be excellent, so it's annoying the 35-100 hasn't had something similar done. (I've started taking my 14-140 mk 1 out with me when I might want a longer stabiliser lens.)

I would agree my Canon stabilised lenses (of which I have a fair number) are better for stabilisation than the Panasonics, with the exception of the 12-35 which I think is very good.

I hadn't contacted Panasonic about it directly (I do nag their reps at events though) as after I saw it I did some Googling, found several reports of it and assumed it wasn't a fault on my lens but just the way it is.

 

[kb99]

I hadn't contacted Panasonic about it directly (I do nag their reps at events though) as after I saw it I did some Googling, found several reports of it and assumed it wasn't a fault on my lens but just the way it is.

I'm afraid you are likely correct in assuming it is just the way it is, and cannot be fixed.

But I think it is very misleading for Panasonic to advertise the OIS on this lens as being "optimized for video", as well as to not openly acknowledge the problem when contacted via email. Both leave a very bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Ned Kelly]

I just voted No for the 100-300 Mega OIS which I have been using a lot at 300mm shooting surfing, sometimes in ETC mode. The manual says to turn it off if on a tripod but I find it helps a lot to leave it on when panning. If it is a locked off shot the manual is correct, as the image will jump on you.

 

[Vesku]

One guy at DPREVIEW forum said he has jitter with his two copies of 12-35mm f 2.8