GH5 Oh man, it's been a minute... GH2 now GH5

Azmyth

Azmyth

Veteran
I used to come here all the time, way back when I first got into this, when I knew absolutely nothing.

YEARS later, and I have a feature film in REDBOX (shot on GH2) and many other streaming outlets and retailers, and dozens of shorts etc. In short, I've learned a lot and I've been busy. I've shot on RED, Arri, Black Magic etc.

I still come back to my GH2 and now GH5 lol.

I'm shooting a new indie comedy on my GH5 and Rokinon Cine lenses. It's set in the 90s.

I've been struggling with all of this picture profile etc. stuff because it seems like it's half a dozen or the other. I'm not much of a color grading fanatic so I like to get the look I want as close to in camera as I can, but with wiggle room to adjust things here and there.. so I've been shooting lately in either Cine-V or Cine-D but I'm not entirely sure what the best choice is. I don't want to bother with V-log because, meh. I just don't wanna.

I've heard of the leeming LUT and a bunch of other stuff, but I'm confused by all of it.
 
shoot in vlog. It's not hard, and just don't want to is usually the reason I give when it all seems to hard, complicated, and not worth the benefit.

But it's actually not hard, and it's VERY worth the benefit.

Here's what you need for a good/easy/quick start:

1. Shoot in vlog, but only in modes that allow 10-bit 4:2:2 (8-bit and vlog, not good)
2. Drop an adjustment layer over your footage in Premiere, apply lumetri color, select "input LUT" and just use Leeming LUT (a custom LUT) or Panasonic default LUT.
3. Yup, actually, that's it. Welcome to much better footage with much better dynamic range.

Other tips:

A. Alternatively, make one instance of Lumetri and use the Leeming or Panasonic default LUT here, titled the filter "base LUT" or whatever you like, paste it to every clip in timeline. Same effect as adjustment layer
B. Different LUTS map the color space differently, don't worry about it, unless you want to
C. Leeming is a great start to then apply your normal color grading on
D. Log + LUTs allow a lot more flexibility in post in terms of color correction, grading, dynamic range, and look. It's literally as easy as above, and you still get a ton of benefit, or as endlessly complicated as you would like it to be. But that doesn't mean it needs to be complicated at all. You've probably just seen/read stuff from people taking it "next level".

Final thought to your point:

Applying a LUT in post can be basically the same as choosing Cine-V or Cine-D in camera. Except you do it on computer here, via the 1-2-3 steps I listed above. The benefit? (1) +2 stops of DR. (2) Ability to quickly change look after the fact (ie drop a different LUT and it's as if you shoot in a different picture profile, at a press of a button.

Think of leeming LUT as a really good Cine-V curve that you click "on" in post VS in camera. Or, you can just use Panasonic default, but many prefer LEEMING. It's worth playing with and shooting some tests. You'll be pleased, I think.
 
I'd suggest HLG with leeming LUT. Best profile the camera has to offer. Uses more of the 10 bit color range as Vlog is technically designed for higher end cameras that have 14 stops of dynamic range etc..

If you know how to light and expose correctly any of the picture profiles work though. Cine-D has more dynamic range then Cine-V, but less contrast and slightly different colors(some people think Cine-D skintones aren't as nice).
 
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sgttom said:
I'd suggest HLG with leeming LUT. Best profile the camera has to offer. Uses more of the 10 bit color range as Vlog is technically designed for higher end cameras that have 14 stops of dynamic range etc...
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While it is true that HLG uses more of the available bits, it is a much more compressed curve. Remember, the "H" standards for "hybrid" and in this case hybrid means that the shadows are basically standard dynamic range (linear.) Only from 50% and above does HLG feature LOG-like advantages. V-LOG L remains the best profile for post manipulation.
 
joe12south said:
While it is true that HLG uses more of the available bits, it is a much more compressed curve. Remember, the "H" standards for "hybrid" and in this case hybrid means that the shadows are basically standard dynamic range (linear.) Only from 50% and above does HLG feature LOG-like advantages. V-LOG L remains the best profile for post manipulation.
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There does seem to be a bit more dynamic range, although some people say its the same as V-log. I personally find its not significant enough advantage to use V-log. I get much better highlight retention with HLG then any of the standard profiles though.
 
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Imamacuser said:
Is "The truth about GH5 V-LOG" video correct or incorrect? He claims that Cine-D has the same amount of DR as V-LOG.
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Its not true. V-log and HLG have more dynamic range. Consider though that the difference is not huge. You are talking 11 stops vs somewhere between 11-12 stops in vlog, so it may not be all that noticeable in many circumstances. The guy isn't doing a exact test.
 
I think VLOG is out of the question even if I wanted to do it Because I haven't ordered it, and I've heard the horror stories of how long it takes people to get it and we shoot in less than a week. I've read up a little on HLG, but that too confuses me, and I always fear things I don't understand why I'm doing them. I get the additional DR, but is it really that huge of a thing if I'm lighting and properly exposing? That, and when you ask this question you get so many varying opinions. I literally just want the easiest, most efficient workflow, that won't end up with me banging my head up against my computer monitor.
 
Azmyth said:
I think VLOG is out of the question even if I wanted to do it Because I haven't ordered it, and I've heard the horror stories of how long it takes people to get it and we shoot in less than a week. I've read up a little on HLG, but that too confuses me, and I always fear things I don't understand why I'm doing them. I get the additional DR, but is it really that huge of a thing if I'm lighting and properly exposing? That, and when you ask this question you get so many varying opinions. I literally just want the easiest, most efficient workflow, that won't end up with me banging my head up against my computer monitor.
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honestly man if you light properly any of the profiles will work. I've heard Portrait gives you the nicest skin tones out of the box. CineD gives you a bit more dynamic range. HLG gives you even more dynamic range. It sounds like CineD is what you want. It's not a log profile but you get a bit more dynamic range then the other basic profiles.
 
and honestly man, vlog isn't hard at all. Order it from B&H and you should have it in a week. And even if you did the first 1-2 days of the shoot with CineD, you can use LeemingLUT to convert CineD and vlog to equivalent matching shots and then reap the vlog benefits for everything else.

There is nothing hard about vlog at all. If you know how to apply a Lumetri filter, it's as easy as that. It's literally one of the main selling points of the GH5. Even if you don't do a lick of color correction you instantly gain at least a stop of DR, most claim 2. For about 10 seconds of extra work in post. And if you ever need to correct a shot or fix a shot problem you'll be shocked at how much better the footage is to work with to fix, even using basic tools (you don't need to do anything with Resolve, for example, to reap many of the benefits).

But if you insist on not using it, shoot in CineD for slightly more post manipulation, or CineV for a 100% baked ready to go look. Though TBH I think if you had even a day's experience with vlog L + leeming LUT and a Lumetri filter you'd be banging your head for NOT using it.
 
And actually, at that point, correcting CineD with a contrast bump / possible saturation adjustment filter is just as time consuming as applying a filter with the preset LUT (read: not at all, but still); so I'd say it's between CineV and vlog. The only reason for CineD these days is either you intentionally want a baked in sort of desaturated/lower contract look, or can't afford the $100 vlog upgrade.
 
Azmyth said:
I think VLOG is out of the question even if I wanted to do it Because I haven't ordered it, and I've heard the horror stories of how long it takes people to get it and we shoot in less than a week. I've read up a little on HLG, but that too confuses me, and I always fear things I don't understand why I'm doing them. I get the additional DR, but is it really that huge of a thing if I'm lighting and properly exposing? That, and when you ask this question you get so many varying opinions. I literally just want the easiest, most efficient workflow, that won't end up with me banging my head up against my computer monitor.
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It may not be widely known, but if VLog is out of the question, there is another way. This conversion allows you to use HLG interchangeably with Vlog, so you can use HLG in VLog workflows, etc -

http://emotivecolor.com/hlgtovlog.html
 
^^^ But there's no good reason to convert HLG to V-LOG L in post unless you really need to use some V-LOG L LUT/workflow. It's not like you can resurrect any of the bottom half of the image.

Based on the OP's statements, I think he would be well served shooting Cine-D, dialing sharpness, NR and contrast to taste, and applying the Leeming LUT in post.
 
I much prefer Vlog as a starting point; the color space really is different (skintone/red area), and I prefer starting with lower contrast (as you probably know from GHa Main/Soft).

He could get Leeming for Vlog, and in the future, should he upgrade to official VLog, he's set. Also, there is the possibility of using Panasonic's Varicam 709, which is precluded by HLG

Can you detail the bottom half of the image note - Is there a bitrate/codec problem there?
 
I ordered vlog and it arrived the next day from Amazon, free one day shipping. Plus you can monitor with a lut on the gh5 in vlog. If you're worried about having it there in time I don't think it would take that long.
 
joe12south said:
Based on the OP's statements, I think he would be well served shooting Cine-D, dialing sharpness, NR and contrast to taste, and applying the Leeming LUT in post.
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But this makes no sense because he’s still applying a LUT, and the workflow is basically identical to just shooting in vlog - except you lose the flexibility and DR.
 
filmguy123 said:
But this makes no sense because he’s still applying a LUT, and the workflow is basically identical to just shooting in vlog - except you lose the flexibility and DR.
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Except he doesn't have to pay $99 for V-log and wait for it to arrive. He can order Leeming and get it within a couple of hours. Plus if he rents or has multiple cameras he can use Leeming on as many cameras as he wants vs buying another v-log activation which would be impossible/impractical for a rented camera.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Except he doesn't have to pay $99 for V-log and wait for it to arrive. He can order Leeming and get it within a couple of hours. Plus if he rents or has multiple cameras he can use Leeming on as many cameras as he wants vs buying another v-log activation which would be impossible/impractical for a rented camera.
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Exactly, and he doesn't even *have* to use the Leeming LUT, it just makes Cine-D better when you can. Cine-D also works better with frame rates that don't support 10-bit.
 
If you want the best baked in look Cine-V or Portrait. If you want a bit more post work (adding contrast, saturation, working on skintones) CineD.

V-log isn't anymore work if you use a LUT. But if you just use V-log it is a ton of coloring work. Same goes for HLG.
 
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