Official Sony NEX-VG10 Thread

Erich Ocean said:
It's 30/25PsF: a progressive image in an interlaced container. Any NLE can remove it without impacting the image quality.

In addition, apparently the HDMI output is on during recording, meaning you can hook it up to an AJA Ki Pro which will remove the PsF and turn it into P before it is recorded as ProRes 422.

This is a 2K-for$2K Super35mm Handycam with interchangeable lenses that shoots 25PsF. That's close enough for anyone wanting to make films. Add a Ki Pro and it's just awesome.

P.s. They did tweak the sensor and imaging for video.
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Can you provide a source for this information? If true it would be good for sure, but I am not finding any official information on it. Also, what does 'tweak' the sensor mean? We are pretty technical here, I'd like to know what was addressed in the sensor for video.
 
grimepoch said:
Can you provide a source for this information? If true it would be good for sure, but I am not finding any official information on it.
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http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/freshdv/story/sony_nex-vg10_announced/

grimepoch said:
Also, what does 'tweak' the sensor mean? We are pretty technical here, I'd like to know what was addressed in the sensor for video.
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I don't have any better info on this than the ProVideoCoalition article above and other places I've read; I don't think it's been tweaked a lot, but whatever they did made a difference over the NEX-3/5 to my eyes. I do know that a second generation sensor is due on the remaining Super35mm cameras from Sony: the NEX-7, the rumored EX-1-class Super35mm camera, and the $19K PL mount Super35mm camera due sometime before NAB next year.

If you look at the full 1080p footage on Vimeo, it's definitely in the GH1 class as far as detail goes, perhaps better, and it's better than the NEX-3/5. Low-light performance is supposedly a lot better than an unhacked GH1, but perhaps the GH13 has closed the gap.

Regardless, this is the camera I've more or less been wanting to get from Red with the Scarlet, and it'll be here in less than 60 days. After all the Red Scarlet hype, fixed spec's and on-time delivery of a 2K-for-$2K Handycam with a Super35mm sensor, interchangeable lenses and uncompressed output feels like cold water on a hot day. I can't wait.
 
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Ok, read a few pages in the beginning of this thread and I'm sorry, but I don't get 24p and I couldn't care less about it for the kind of videos I shoot.
I don't make movies, so maybe that's why.
Considering the cost and the features of the VG10, it looks like the ideal solution for what I'm doing and it would offer some major advantages over using a standard consumer level camcorder as I am at the moment as I'm only just starting out. Sure, the VG10 is 3x the price of what I paid for my camcorder, but it's most likely going to be 3x as good as well.

On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of interlaced video, but that's mostly to do with what I'm shooting video off, which sometimes end up looking really bad in interlaced video mode.

Well, that's just my two cents, but judging by the rumours going around at the moment, it's going to be far from a one of a kind product, so maybe Sony's competitors will have something even more enticing...
 
Provideo Coalition:
"I also have it on good authority from a Sony contact that the mini-HDMI port output is pre-compression, so you also have the option of uncompressed recording when tethered to a card or capture device."


hmmm...I'd love to see some uncompressed captured footage. It should be progressiv then also, right?


"It is a 1920x1080 full-raster image, as you might expect."

I don't think this is something to expect from that sensor. If I do understand the term right (English not my native language) full raster image is something no DSLR can provide right now?!
 
The posted article says that its progressive in an interlaced container, if so, that is definitely better, although I still don't see that you can shoot 48i to get 24p :) I still want my ~1/48 exposure.

My biggest concern is the rolling shutter performance and the aliasing/moire performance. That's something I will just have to test by hand when they are available. I can read all day about what people perceive, but it's one of those things that when you use a camera, you can just tell very easily.

My other concern is I'd still want to use my Canon lenses. I wonder if an electronic adapter will ever be available since my lens do not have an Iris ring.

In any case, thanks for pointing out the link. I am going to go watch their videos more closely.
 
steventimothy said:
Damned if they might not convince Maw & Paw Sixpack that they need bokeh and MegaDOF for their next Disneyworld jaunt.
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Yessir - they see them dollars being spent, and want a piece. Who can blame them? It's all about creating a perceived need for a product in order to convince people to spend their smackaroos! I'm fully expecting a ticket to Bali to come in every box of VG10's, and all my home videos will look like million dollar movies, and a beautiful Bali girl will give me a seductive glance through the lens every time I look into that handycam eyepiece!
 
I watched a few of the videos and one of them shows the width of their APS-C sensor as being 23.4mm wide. As a reference, the 7D is 22.3mm. That's a good thing in my opinion.

I watched the videos and it was hard to get a lot of information on them. All of them were plagued with YouTube and Vimeo artifacts, which I guess is good, since beyond them, a lot of the images did look really good. I especially was impressed with the sky with the guy pulling water and I guess salt out of the ocean. Some of the scenes though did lack a lot of dynamic range, but who knows what they were doing. I certainly wouldn't base anything off of what I saw. I've seen GH1(3) and 7D look the same way from some people, and amazing by others.

The only rolling shutter issues I could easily see was the flamingo rocking its legs back and forth rapidly. I could see the curving. There weren't any fast pans, but I did notice a little expansion/compression on a few of the shots with a decent amount of up down jitter. Not bad.

As for Moire and Aliasing, since I was not looking at a 1080 version who knows. Downsampling hides a lot of that IF IF IF you are not Canon :) So I didn't see any rainbows, that's a good thing.

What I want to know about the quad microphone array is can I write that out in quad? What would be AWESOME is getting both the front two mics on that and then have the plug in mic be separate. That way, get some all around ambience and then the boom routed through something to get into the camera.

I wonder how much the A-mount adapter will cost. I did see that my favorite lens, sigma 30mm F1.4 is available. I wasn't impressed with ANY of the speeds of the E mount lenses.

I have to say, if they get 24p out of this camera before release, it might be fun to play with. I (me, myself and no relation to others) have no desire for 30p. Also, I really want to evaulate the rolling shutter performance as well.

There is still enough mystery with this product to make it intriguing I will say. Sony, if you are listening, you would be WISE to have 24p possible. You will open a lot more eyes and potentially get a lot more sales. Especially for a $2k starting point IF the sensor is indeed enhanced for video that it is better than the current DSLR offerings.
 
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I AGREE


Very interesting.
 
grimepoch said:
I watched the videos and it was hard to get a lot of information on them.
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Vimeo has the original 1080p download available. I don't know if that was re-compressed by the editor for the web or not, but it looks like GH13 quality to my eyes. I'm expecting a ProRes 422 recording with the Ki Pro to eliminate compression-related artifacts entirely.

grimepoch said:
I wonder how much the A-mount adapter will cost.
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The A-mount adaptor is $199 USD.

I'm working on putting together an E-mount to PL mount adaptor with Les Bosher, stainless steel and shimmable for back focus. If anyone else is interested in a group buy, PM me. I'd expect there are a few of us now. My goal is to get the adaptors made by Sept. 10, when the NEX-VG10 ships. (Les can use an NEX-3/5 in the meantime.)
 
thelostswede said:
On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of interlaced video, but that's mostly to do with what I'm shooting video off, which sometimes end up looking really bad in interlaced video mode.
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It records progressive video and stores the frames interlaced, either 30PsF (NTSC) or 25PsF (PAL). Any NLE editor can re-interpreted the footage as progressive without any quality loss, or you can leave it as PsF if you need to deliver interlaced.

When 30p and 24p recording first came out, PsF was how they did it because the entire rest of the infrastructure was interlaced. This allowed natively progressive video to be used with the existing interlaced infrastructure.

I can only imagine that Sony worked *really* hard to get this camera under $2K, and the engineering shortcuts to getting a Super35mm FullHD interchangeable lens Handycam at the price were much simplified frame rate specs, probably re-using existing chips and IP to do the recording.

Personally, I'm glad they did. I'd rather have this camera in 60 days for $2K than a mythical "better" camera (*cough* Scarlet *cough*) for more money at some unknown point in the future.

One thing we can all agree on is that the 2K-for-$2K Super35mm Handycam with interchangeable lenses is only going to improve from here. It feels like we're finally on the right product roadmap, and with a company that can deliver on promised products and timelines and doesn't have to rely on external manufacturers and a learning curve to do so.

And then there's the $19K PL mount Super35mm Sony camera due before NAB 2011 for high-end filmmakers, which means that Sony has finally gotten the Super35mm religion and (apparently) figured out it won't hurt their 2/3" broadcast business one iota. Along with the rumored Super35mm EX-1, we're talking about six (!) new camera models with interchangeable lenses and two generations of Super35mm sensors from Sony, priced for owners, not renters, and in the space of a single year (!). Sony isn't just dabbling in Super35mm; they've jumped in the deep end.

This is a big deal. :-)
 
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Barry_Green said:
Where has there been any mention from Sony about any "$19k PL-mount Super35mm camera" or "Super35mm EX-1"?
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I think he's referring to the PVC article on the last page that said this camera would get uncompressed HDMI out. But the speculation on future cameras is marked "opinion".

Either way, we know Sony is making a at least one more S35 cam that slots above this.
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Barry_Green said:
Where has there been any mention from Sony about any "$19k PL-mount Super35mm camera" or "Super35mm EX-1"?
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Steve Castle has pics of the $19K PL mount Sony Super35mm camera announced at NAB 2010 above.

The EX-1ish Super35mm is just a rumor, but it would use the same sensor as the upcoming NEX-7 (also insider info, but reliable) and presumably the same sensor as the $19K PL mount camera.

It seems very unlikely to me that Sony will not announce a "pro" version of the NEX-VG10 in the next year. Panasonic already has one in the AF-100, and Sony will want/need to match that. XDCAM EX recording, HD-SDI out, XLR inputs -- it's coming.
 
Again, where has it been said that it's $19k? And where has there been any authoritative statement (not rumor sites) about any EX-1 version?

As far as I know, Sony has ever only revealed the unit in the photos above, at the press conference, and haven't ever actually said anything about it -- no mention of features, pricing, or anything. It could be $2k, it could be $20k, it could be $200k, no mention was made, so as far as I know, any mention of "$19k" is sheer speculation, right? Or has there been some official statement that I'm not aware of?
 
The $19k number came from here: http://www.fdtimes.com/news/?p=1786

Not sure if I believe that number though. Could be a decoy. If it's true it would have to do something extra like high frame rates. Sony also keeps saying it has a 35mm "roadmap" so who knows what else is in store. But it seems to me these large sensor cameras can coexist with the smaller sensor cameras because each has their own niche. They'll probably differentiate the product line by codecs and frame rates. Also, personally I think S35mm/APS-C size sensors is the way to go. If Canon comes on board they will likely use this sensor size. Panasonic will probably be the only ones to ever use Micro 4/3 for professional video.
 
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