Odyssey 7q RAW Post Workflow help needed

[austinmartifilms]

In Davinci Resolve, I'm only supposed to use the Convergent Design Slog LUT to grade, correct?

Sometimes it seems like it's hard to get back good saturation.

Or am I supposed to use a second LUT in conjunction with the Slog LUT?

I just want to make sure I'm doing things right.

Thanks.

 

[Clermond]

pls have a look at some threads that have the same topic. It's explained in detail already. Also you should supply more information what kind of footage you are using.

 

[austinmartifilms]

pls have a look at some threads that have the same topic. It's explained in detail already. Also you should supply more information what kind of footage you are using.

The posts I find on the topic seem vague and never seem to clarify specifically what is the "proper" workflow. Maybe it's just me.. I don't know.

The information for what type of footage I'm using is pretty obvious. I'm in the FS700 forum, and I stated in the subject that it's Odyssey 7q RAW footage, thus FS700 > Odyssey 7q RAW footage.

 

[JensK]

The posts I find on the topic seem vague and never seem to clarify specifically what is the "proper" workflow. Maybe it's just me.. I don't know.

The information for what type of footage I'm using is pretty obvious. I'm in the FS700 forum, and I stated in the subject that it's Odyssey 7q RAW footage, thus FS700 > Odyssey 7q RAW footage.

The reason is there is no "proper" workflow. There are quite a few different workflows to go by, all of which works and can yield pretty much the same results; it'll likely come down to how you personally prefer to work with the footage. Previously, the CD LUT was very popular, but recently I've seen more people not use it. Recently, then, many have started using ACES colorspace which will give you a pretty good starting point as well.

Personally, I go about it a couple of different ways, assuming its raw log footage we're talking about. If I'm using ACES, I don't find myself in need of any LUTs as the picture becomes very neutral with just a bit of added saturation. If I'm not using ACES, I really like the ARRI LUT which is in DaVinci per default. It gives me some pretty good contrast and color from the get-go.

Again, its very depended on what you want to achieve, and more importantly, which way you like to work with the data. Thats the great thing about working with RAW; you have so much latitude that you can go about the grade is so many different ways and still get a very good result from it.

I know thats not what you were looking for, but I hope I explained to some detail why the question you asked is difficult to answer. With that being said, there are, as mentioned, some great guides already on the forum here which will give you a great starting point!

 

[austinmartifilms]

The reason is there is no "proper" workflow. There are quite a few different workflows to go by, all of which works and can yield pretty much the same results; it'll likely come down to how you personally prefer to work with the footage. Previously, the CD LUT was very popular, but recently I've seen more people not use it. Recently, then, many have started using ACES colorspace which will give you a pretty good starting point as well.

Personally, I go about it a couple of different ways, assuming its raw log footage we're talking about. If I'm using ACES, I don't find myself in need of any LUTs as the picture becomes very neutral with just a bit of added saturation. If I'm not using ACES, I really like the ARRI LUT which is in DaVinci per default. It gives me some pretty good contrast and color from the get-go.

Again, its very depended on what you want to achieve, and more importantly, which way you like to work with the data. Thats the great thing about working with RAW; you have so much latitude that you can go about the grade is so many different ways and still get a very good result from it.

I know thats not what you were looking for, but I hope I explained to some detail why the question you asked is difficult to answer. With that being said, there are, as mentioned, some great guides already on the forum here which will give you a great starting point!

That helps, JensK. Thank you.

I will to try out using ACES and see how it looks, and keep experimenting with other methods as well, I'm sure.


I've got another question:
I'm using Resolve Lite, so for 4k footage I'm limited to 3840 px wide.

If I use 3840 x 2160, upon export I get black bars on the top and bottom. I'd have to shorten the height to 2025 to get rid of the black.
Can anyone explain why this is?

I suppose Resolve isn't just cropping off the sides to get to 3840 from 4096, but instead it is scaling down the image while retaining proportions, thus causing the black bars. So is 3840 x 2025 what you guys are using? Otherwise one could just scale up the image in their NLE, but that would then cut some of the image from the sides.

 

[JensK]

That helps, JensK. Thank you.

I will to try out using ACES and see how it looks, and keep experimenting with other methods as well, I'm sure.


I've got another question:
I'm using Resolve Lite, so for 4k footage I'm limited to 3840 px wide.

If I use 3840 x 2160, upon export I get black bars on the top and bottom. I'd have to shorten the height to 2025 to get rid of the black.
Can anyone explain why this is?

I suppose Resolve isn't just cropping off the sides to get to 3840 from 4096, but instead it is scaling down the image while retaining proportions, thus causing the black bars. So is 3840 x 2025 what you guys are using? Otherwise one could just scale up the image in their NLE, but that would then cut some of the image from the sides.

As for getting started with ACES, Clermont from this site gave a pretty good starting point. I'll just copy paste it for you, but all credit goes to him:

1) ACES
2) Camera RAW: Cinema DNG - Decode Using: Project - White Balance: As Shot - Color Space: BMD Film - Gamma: BMD Film - Highlight Recover: Check
3) Exposure +2.0
4) No LUT
5) No further correction, also no contrast change

As for the 5th point, thats obviously what you're after. Some like to add +2.5 Exposure rather than 2, but again, it depends on what you shot etc.


Just to make sure you know, DaVinci Resolve lite only allows you to export in standard 1920x1080 resolution. As for monitoring, I believe there is a scaling tab in the options panel which allows you to adjust how the picture stretches the picture etc. If Im not totally wrong (I'm not at my computer right now so I can't check), that'll remove the black bars. I just don't recall the exact name of the box you need to check, but there is only like 4, so you'll probably find it

 

[austinmartifilms]

Just to make sure you know, DaVinci Resolve lite only allows you to export in standard 1920x1080 resolution. As for monitoring, I believe there is a scaling tab in the options panel which allows you to adjust how the picture stretches the picture etc. If Im not totally wrong (I'm not at my computer right now so I can't check), that'll remove the black bars. I just don't recall the exact name of the box you need to check, but there is only like 4, so you'll probably find it

This doesn't seem to be the case at least with DaVinci Resolve 10 Lite.

I can export at up to 3840 x 2160.

 

[JensK]

Aha, I was just under the impression that was not the case, but thats cool! I guess thats a "new" feature in 10. Which reminds me, I can't wait for 11. It looks amazing. In any case, did you solve the other issue?

 

[austinmartifilms]

I'm working on it, although when I follow the instructions for the Camera RAW settings, my White Balance setting always returns to Custom after changing it to "As Shot".
What I mean is I can change it to "As Shot", but upon returning to the project settings window, it is always back to "Custom".

 

[JensK]

In any case you should be able to use "custom" as opposed to "As Shot", so long as you don't change the white balance value; it should give you the number you set the camera too as far as I know. Personally, I like to use custom as changing the temperature can help balancing the picture much more than what I can get from the wheels. In any case, custom should be fine too. The end result should be the same.

 

[austinmartifilms]

In any case you should be able to use "custom" as opposed to "As Shot", so long as you don't change the white balance value; it should give you the number you set the camera too as far as I know. Personally, I like to use custom as changing the temperature can help balancing the picture much more than what I can get from the wheels. In any case, custom should be fine too. The end result should be the same.

Okay, I'll just go with it. I just didn't want to have to change the WB for every shot to match what the camera was set to.

Thanks for the help! ACES is looking pretty good.

 

[B-Wiz]

I spoke with conversion design and this is what they told me.

"Please be sure you on the latest firmware.

[url]http://www.convergent-design.com/FirmwareUpdates/Odyssey7Q.aspx[/URL]

First to avoid the noise of working with 2000 ISO base from the camera many users tend to overexpose their image buy one to two stops but keep in mind doing so when you apply the 709 lut on the Odyssey the image will look over exposed and the highlights clipped but when you import the file into resolve you will see that with the raw file there is still room before the highlights are clipped.

As four resolve you should be using the Rec 709 not the BMD film setting and should be using the following lot from the download page..

http://www.convergent-design.com/Downloads.aspx'

All this information was given to me on June 16 2014

I am using the steps above but also purchased the impulZ luts

http://www.vision-color.com/impulz/

And now I am very confused..

When using the FS 700 S-Log2 and Odyssey 7Q Raw .DNG


1. Do I overexpose image by one or two stops?

2. Do I use ACES or do I use Convergent Designs workflow in DaVinci Resolve?

ACES workflow
1) ACES
2) Camera RAW: Cinema DNG - Decode Using: Project - White Balance: As Shot - Color Space: BMD Film - Gamma: BMD Film - Highlight Recover: Check
3) Exposure +2.0
4) No LUT
5) No further correction, also no contrast change.

Convergent designs workflow

1. Right click on the file and select “Edit Cinema DNG Codec Settings”
   
2. Then under the CAMERA RAW select be sure CinemaDNG is selected from the drop downmenu.
   
3. Set the Decode using method to CinemaDNG Default* (Also be sure your project is setupcorrectly)
   
4. Set the White Balance to As Shot
   
5. Set the Color Space to Rec709
   
6. Set the Gamma to Rec709
   
7. Leave Highlight Recovery off
   
8. Click Apply
   

3. How do I work with the impulZ luts in either workflow?

Any help or insight would be much appreciated...

 

[Gene Sung]

1. Do I overexpose image by one or two stops?

2. Do I use ACES or do I use Convergent Designs workflow in DaVinci Resolve?

ACES workflow
1) ACES
2) Camera RAW: Cinema DNG - Decode Using: Project - White Balance: As Shot - Color Space: BMD Film - Gamma: BMD Film - Highlight Recover: Check
3) Exposure +2.0
4) No LUT
5) No further correction, also no contrast change.

Convergent designs workflow

1. Right click on the file and select “Edit Cinema DNG Codec Settings”
2. Then under the CAMERA RAW select be sure CinemaDNG is selected from the drop downmenu.
3. Set the Decode using method to CinemaDNG Default* (Also be sure your project is setupcorrectly)
4. Set the White Balance to As Shot
5. Set the Color Space to Rec709
6. Set the Gamma to Rec709
7. Leave Highlight Recovery off
8. Click Apply

3. How do I work with the impulZ luts in either workflow?

Any help or insight would be much appreciated...

I came up with something very similar to Clermond's settings (which are based off Paul Curtis' research), except:
1) I have Exposure set to +2.5
2) I have a contrast preset of 0.8 which I apply to each clip and make it a bit flatter.

This gets it very close to 4K2HD.

Personally, I would avoid the Convergent Design workflow you listed as I have not had good results with those settings. After crazy amounts of pixel peeping, I think the ACES is the way to go if you want it to look close to 4K2HD which looks almost identical to the AVCHD S-Log 2 coming out of the camera, but with way more post flexibility (obviously because of the 10-bit).

As for over-exposing by 2 stops? That seems a bit drastic to me but some people do it. 1 stop is perfectly doable. For me, during bright sun / outdoors I tend to just expose to the middle. In artificial lighting or low light, you're fine being 1 stop or even 2 stops under which is often just what you get because in most low light situations it's almost impossible to over-expose due to the lack of light.

I guess it just depends on your noise tolerance. There is no set rule.

 

[Clermond]

I came up with something very similar to Clermond's settings (which are based off Paul Curtis' research)

off course it was Paul's research not mine! I did not claim to have discovered these settings, I just summed them up and confirmed his findings. All appreciation goes to Paul.

 

[weasel-d]

A couple questions...

While trying out the different color sciences in Resolve's project settings I can't determine any difference between yrgb, aces and aces log. What am I missing or are you guys talking about the aces LUT and not the color science? Also what resolution is everyone working in and exporting from Resolve when working with 2k raw? None of Resolve's 2k presets match the resolution of the dng's.

 

[Gene Sung]

off course it was Paul's research not mine! I did not claim to have discovered these settings, I just summed them up and confirmed his findings. All appreciation goes to Paul.

Paul is the 7Q God! Mortals like myself just learn from him.

Regarding the exposure question above, with 4K2HD you definitely cannot over expose like RAW which has insane highlight recovery. For myself with 4K2HD, I just keep it in the middle and avoid overexposing at all.

 

[Clermond]

I have the WFM in the eye plus the zebra marker in FS700 at 95% and have this as a strict limit on 4K2HD. At RAW your can be more a little more generous in over exposing

 

[Colinelves]

A couple questions...

While trying out the different color sciences in Resolve's project settings I can't determine any difference between yrgb, aces and aces log. What am I missing or are you guys talking about the aces LUT and not the color science? Also what resolution is everyone working in and exporting from Resolve when working with 2k raw? None of Resolve's 2k presets match the resolution of the dng's.

There is a huge difference between YRGB and ACES (and ACES log - which applies automatically applies a log curve) - I suggest you do a little reading on ACES to understand it better, but to clarify, we're talking about the ACES colour science (not the ACES log) in step 1.

Oh, and 2K DCI matches the 2K Resolution of the DNGs.

 

[weasel-d]

There is a huge difference between YRGB and ACES (and ACES log - which applies automatically applies a log curve) - I suggest you do a little reading on ACES to understand it better, but to clarify, we're talking about the ACES colour science (not the ACES log) in step 1.

Oh, and 2K DCI matches the 2K Resolution of the DNGs.

I've watched the video and followed the directions - http://nothingunderground.com/news/tag/ACES Color Space

When using cinemaDNG for the IDT and Rec. 709 or sRGB for the ODT everything looks underexposed and over-saturated. Additionally I can't decode using "project" as was suggested above because then you can't change exposure, white balance, etc...

 

[JensK]

There is a huge difference between YRGB and ACES (and ACES log - which applies automatically applies a log curve) - I suggest you do a little reading on ACES to understand it better, but to clarify, we're talking about the ACES colour science (not the ACES log) in step 1.

Oh, and 2K DCI matches the 2K Resolution of the DNGs.

I can suggest https://www.fxguide.com/featured/the-art-of-digital-color/ for some in-depth reading on ACES and the bacnground hereof. Its pretty easily read too.