Odd question to just see an overall responce... F3 build

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Ok so there is a point to this question, but I cant reveal it for some time, but want to get opinions on F3 owners.


Would you have rather the F3 been slightly larger but offer a built in shoulder rest? Think Alexa, X35, form factor but still lighter in weight.

Votes? comments?

To start off I'd say that yes I would have liked the F3 to give up its smaller package for a proper way to shoulder mount.
 
Maybe... but again - the way it is going - soon the camera will be a chip attached on the back of the lens - and that will be your camera.
Time to figure how to make a rig to do that.
 
Yeah, that would be a nice option. I'm not a fan of those rigs that put the CoG out in front. Something lightweight like a carbon shoulder frame would be ultra cool.
 
First, I hate shaky camera work, so I rarely do something on the shoulder. The biggest problem I see is that you get tired and start shaking with all those rigs no matter how well balanced. Plus every time you move your hands you risk a major jostle of the camera. No one is perfect. Sooner or later you screw it up.

Second, there is a very easy way to get a shoulder mount under the cam for balance (not behind, under is the secret). If you have a base plate that allows you to balance the camera on the tripod simply screw the shoulder mount in there. I'm doing a DIY one right now. Its better than unbalanced rigs, but still limited in use.

There are several other things that would have to be changed to do really good shoulder work. A higher resolution EVF far enough forward to use is one issue. A lens that works with the zoom toggle so you don't move your hands is another.

These things would add up to a vast increase in the price of the camera. A Glidecam or Steadicam with an arm and a vest seems easier and less tiring.
 
I think a Shoulder Mount Forum factor would have been better. but I'm not sure i would go with lighter. it sucks but cameras with weight are easier to do hand held work with. I'm not say 100lbs or anything but something in the 15-25lb range seems to be best.
 
I would have loved the camera to have had a proper shoulder mount. I would then have wanted a viewfinder at the proper position. I have yet to use the built on viewfinder, the position is wrong for hand held shots, and when I use a tripod I use the lcd or external monitor.
 
http://youtu.be/5dR8ygxqSD8

This was in a different post. Looks pretty nice as far as where the balance point is. Kinda looks like an ENG cam with the bracket on there.

I don't own and haven't used an F3 yet but I could go either way with it. I like the fact that you can kinda build it for the way you use it. But on the other hand it would be nice to pull it out of the box and have it be comfortable.
 
Thanks for the imput guys, most DP's/Ops I find want a built in shoulder mount and hate the camera "box" type. They want more of an Alexa or ENG type shoulder than a zacuto or 3rd party attachment... Any more votes on this? There is a reason to it, and I all might ask you to be a part of something as well... (sorry for the vagueness, and no it doesn't directly have to do with building a mount or something for the F3)
 
It's really not that hard to build light shoulder mount for it. If you can live ignoring the "pony tail" view finder.....
 
Just looking through some photos of the Alexa. I think aside from the viewfinder on the Alexa, the bodies are pretty similar it seems. If a person could just put a shoulder pad right under the body of the F3, it would be pretty close. Somebody needs to make a shoulder pad with a 1/4x20 on it and call 'er good. The view finder is the kicker.

Sony F3Alexa.jpg
 
well my question was also having it slightly bigger/longer to allow for proper shoulder-mount. That photo combining the two looks lovely, but would be too small for practical use without weight being distrubuted properly dont you think? Maybe a little more real estate on the back end? Again this is NOT for the F3 this is seeing what F3 owners would like. Please PM me for more details about why I'm polling/asking.
 
This is an interesting discussion, and while I am not an F3 owner, I've been working on shoulder mount solutions for my FS100 and have been thinking a lot about it which does related to the F3. So far, most of my solutions have been front heavy which has not been conducive to good shooting. I will say this though, my problem with the Alexa is that sure, it will work great when you are on shoulder mount setups, however, it definitely does not have the flexibility to shoot in the same ways as say the Epic can do. Just think 3D even. This may not matter to some people, but it does matter to me, and I think having a smaller general camera system to build on is a big plus. It means with the proper designed support gear, you can use your camera in a multitude of situations. I think the comment about the sensor on a lens is kinda where I've seen things starting to go. BUT, not for all practical purposes. I mean that, with that sort of system, the camera setup can be adapted to almost anything else.

My biggest problem with the F3, AF100 and FS100 is the EVF position. On all three cameras I find it pointless. I think that having it a moveable to ANYWHERE you need it EVF solution is the path for both manufacturers to take. Almost all shoulder rig systems I see that are being used for these three cameras use a 3rd party EVF already since they want to get that weight back.

The second issue is the Alexa weighs 13.8 lbs without the viewfinder and 16.9 points with the viewfinder! That's not including the lens. The F3 weighs around 5.29 lbs without lens. That is a HUGE difference. Unfortunately, I've not had the opportunity to hold an F3, but even on the FS100 making the camera larger doesn't seem like it is going to make a difference. You need to get the lens back further, which by default, pushes the battery back further. The rest of the body really weighs almost nothing. These cameras are just really light comparatively.

I think the photoshop example is great. The thing also to remember is that if you add on an external recorder, you need to take that into consideration as well. Between an external recorder and the F3 placed on the shoulder, I would think this gives you MUCH more flexibility in your kit. However, add to that a lens and you'll likely need some additional weight on the back, however, I don't see how this is unavoidable even in a bigger design. It should still end up being A LOT lighter than the Alexa setup.

it seems to me the solution here is to make a different type of base plate that is longer, with shoulder support, with rail support, that is a lot thinner profile than what exists. the rails don't need to go all the way through. A system for adding weights might be necessary on the back. And of course, handle solutions for your hands.
 
I've owned a PD100, and HVX200, an EX-1 and now an F3. In every case would I have preferred a shoulder mounted camera? - YES.

Producers have this dea its easier t shoot with a little camera buts its just the opposite. Except in some cases with a really light camera like the PD100 with a wide angle lens that you could float around with, all the little so-called hand held cameras that you really cannot handhold, just make the cameraman's job more difficult.
I just got off the phone explaining to a director the difficulties of doing a run and gun shoot with the F3 in rapidly changing lighting. I told her the easiest most effective tool is a traditional ENG shoulder mounted camera with a good eyepiece and well thought out controls.
That said I hate the rigs that try to convert handheld cameras to should mount because they give you even less flexibility.
 
I'm with you lenilenapi. Lighter hand held cameras aren't for hand held shots at all.

I would love the features of a f3 in the forum factor of a traditional eng. Weight isn't always a bad thing.
 
I think its pretty obvious with all the small cameras that every professional shooter goes crazy trying to accessorize the camera just to finally get him back to a shadow of the ordinary flexibility of a traditional ENG camera. It really is pretty crazy. i gave up questioning it a long time ago though as a done deal.
 
My vote goes to the new P+S Technik prototype, and then to the Alexa, as far as ergonomics go. Detachable viewfinder makes it flexible. My guess is – it was Sony answer to the Epic and the Alexa – and somehow it didn’t work.The money spent on the
pathetic viewfinder and almost useless little thing on the side – they would have made a detachable viewfinder .Build-in rod holders? Good idea – for me – they should always be there – no matter which camera .Shoulder pads have been moving forward
[FONT=&quot]As cameras got smaller – soon they will be under the lens and there is going to be no room for anything else.[/FONT]
 
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