Obsession with "The Industry"...

[gonzo_entertainment]

But the art in cinema in general is ALL about the execution. Anyone can say they "have a vision" and then with enough money, hire the best cinematographer, editor, and composer and create a pretty good film.

No, you couldn't.
You could create film where the individual shots were technically good and the music was well composed and the editing was technically sound, but that does not a good film make.

So have you actually directed a film, because it certainly seems like you haven't.

In the pre-production process I spend hours upon hours upon hours creating the storyboards and the shot list. I spend hours with the composer listening to his rough ideas and saying "yes, that works, no it should be faster, I think we need strings there, etc...". I spend hours with the art director, hours with the costume person, hours with the makeup person, making sure each one of them knows where we are going and how we are going to get there. Otherwise they would all be pulling in their own directions and we'd have a technically competent jumbled mess.

As a general rule the final product on the screen will be between 85% to 90% EXACTLY the same as the story boards I created a month or more before we ever walked on set. You could animate my storyboards and except for the fact they are pretty crude drawings they would almost perfectly match the final edit of the film.

 

[Patryk_Rebisz]

To OP, your tone of voice and the ideas you raise show that your don't have much producing experience. If you did you would discover that price of camera gear is only 1/20 (or less of actual budget) so yes that line item might be cheaper then it used to be but that means you still have to come up with $ to pay for other 19/20 line items. Moreover if your logic is correct that cheaper camera gear means more production then to staff those productions you would have to pay more $ to the crew as they have so many productions to choose from - which would upset your math as to productions getting cheaper.

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

Your use of emoticons suggests the 20 something option. Plus if you were a 40 year old, you'd be complaining about why nobody is shooting film anymore.

I'll agree about the emoticons... never used them... and aren't they a sin anyway?

But as for complaining about no one using film... I personally look forward to it... I think the higher end digital cameras, such as the ARRI are on the 'cusp' of the change over... I think for
the low end, where I can afford to be, there may be another round of 'betterment', better bit depth, better low noise high ISO... but I think the Canons and the GH-1/2 pretty much
are good to go for many projects.

Had I a $100K budget I'd be really hard pressed to justify 'film' over digital... maybe at $1M the 'film' budget sinks in to the 'mud'... but then the Alexa comes into view...

Red always was out of my personal budget anyway...

 

[john threat]

directing isnt team work - its temporary fascism! with director as the leader. forging a delicate alliance of people to do your bidding either by cash or influence.

haha. team work. funny.


I agree that is takes a magic synthesis of several factors to come together to make an amazing film. Lots of thing happen on the journey from script to final cut. Its really beyond reason to even try to fathom it.


There are so many directing styles and visions, its useless to compare them. Some go organic and feel their way naturally with scenes and actors, others are dictatorial and want it to the very frame of the storyboard, some are flexible and use their environment, others lose their way once away from a green screen.

 

[GH2user]

To OP, your tone of voice and the ideas you raise show that your don't have much producing experience.

Yea, that's kind of my point. If I was "in the game" already making a living, I wouldn't care about changing or improving it. It's only because I'm a relative outsider-looking-in that I'm seeing a convoluted system that seems outdated and overly complicated.

This thread isn't ment to be about "how it is" already. It's more about if, with todays technology, more information, quicker learning curves, ect... does the current production model still make sense? Should directors be doing more? Can jobs be consolidated now and start bringing in quicker/easier production methods that could bring prices down and allow more chances to be taken?

I've talke to few few people in "the industry" and they've told me that the failure/rise margins are just to great these days. That's why all we're seeing is reboots and remakes. It's too much of a risk to try new ideas now.

So, if you already have a career, that's great. I can see why you wouldn't want anything to change. But there are a few of us coming into the game now who are sick of bureaucratic unions and the status-qoe dictating the future of what is supposed to be an art-form. If everybody stuck to the mentality of "that's just how it is" we'd still be cavemen...

In the pre-production process I spend hours upon hours upon hours creating the storyboards and the shot list.

I'm not trying to insult your personal work or anything... but it just seems like to me, that if any director truly "has a vision", then there is no need for story boards. If you're your own DP and editor, just shoot it like the movie you seen in your head. The shots should be visualized already.

directing isnt team work - its temporary fascism! with director as the leader. forging a delicate alliance of people to do your bidding either by cash or influence.

haha. team work. funny.

Yea, that's what it seems like to me to allot of the time. And, honestly, a set does need this... but, in my personal philosophy, it's only be justified if the director could do the jobs himself if it came down to it and time wasn't an issue. If you cannot compose a simple score yourself, I just don't believe you should be given control over someone who can. If you can't light your own damn set and don't know your lenses and formats, then you don't deserve a good looking movie. If you don't have an art/design background how can you instruct a set designer? Or properly give direction to a CG modeler? You can't. All you're doing is just saying when you like something or not.

I'm not saying this is correct or anything... this is just my opinion. And I would never want to work under somebody that is just exploiting other artists, if he himself/herself, is not capable of the same tasks themselves.

Film might be the highest form of art. But it's the only one I've seen where a person who is not capable of art himself, can take credit for such a large sum of other's work.

 

[Kholi]

.... wow.

 

[Ted Spencer]

... but it just seems like to me, that if any director truly "has a vision", then there is no need for story boards. If you're your own DP and editor, just shoot it like the movie you seen in your head. The shots should be visualized already.

Lots and lots of people, many of them very similar in their point of view to yours, do it just that way. The problem is that what they produce is statistically overwhelmingly likely to become part of the well-known '99% of all movies' that are commonly lumped together in the category known (to film festival screeners in particular) as "crap".

There are very good reasons for all the myriad steps and processes that most experienced/successful filmmakers use at every stage from script writing to promotion of the finished film. They take those steps because they are proven, time-tested methods, and they've learned that they're an important part of what helped get them their successes in the first place.

It's extremely common at any point in history to find people, especially young people, who scorn the status-quo way of doing things, thinking, all too often with breathtakingly little solid reasoning, that they know better. A very, very tiny percentage of those people, like Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Elvis Presley and so on, usually due to extraordinary brilliance and beyond-dogged persistence, will succeed at just that thing. The other 99.999% percent will either realize that existing structures do in fact work pretty well (look at all the counterculture 60's hippies who morphed into wealthy middle-class yuppies in the 80's), or they'll persist in failed attempts in one way or another to 'reinvent the wheel'.

If you're one of the gifted .0001% then my hat's off to you. If not, then you might want to take a closer look at why those filmmaking structures have existed, and been embraced by so many successful people, for so long.

My $.02

 

[john threat]

everyone wants to direct!
truthfully! everyone can!
lets direct and see what comes out!

 

[StMad]

If you cannot compose a simple score yourself, I just don't believe you should be given control over someone who can. If you can't light your own damn set and don't know your lenses and formats, then you don't deserve a good looking movie. If you don't have an art/design background how can you instruct a set designer? Or properly give direction to a CG modeler? You can't. All you're doing is just saying when you like something or not.

I thought I was the only one who felt this way! It's been a long haul, but this year I finally finished my make-up dilpoma. Next year I'll become an electrician...not sure when I'll get to making movies though...

 

[morgan_moore]

I am an outsider. Coming from stills

I think recent technologies faster ISO, lighter cameras, affordability of multi cam,instant playback can make the process of film making a lot easier and reduce the size of the 'dog and pony show' in a huge manner

I would hope I have got a pretty good handle on 'making films' - i.e. constructing them to be technically functional and aesthetically pleasing in a fast and efficient manner

Does any of my work emotionally move the audience? (maybe that is the definition of 'good') - not yet - mainly because I have not worked on well directed projects with strong content

I think the discussion really needs to separate direction/content from the aspect of getting it done to have a lot of value

As for those bigger crews I can see value, simply it is cheaper to sit behind a monitor and get someone else to move a light than run from the monitor to the light and back while the talent sits around doing nothing- that process is scalable.

On stills shoot I work alone or with an assistant, I always try and persuade the client that the cost per image goes down when they pay for an assistant too

Best

SMM

 

[Rolf Silber]

Directing is not about being able to do everything yourself the departments will do - directing is about directing = telling a story in moving pictures and sound.

It is about having both a feeling AND an executable idea about the dramatic structure of your movie ..... having both a feeling AND an executable idea about aesthetics, rhythm, pace, colours, shapes ..... being able to to see a story with the eyes of an audience before the first take is even shot .... being able to see all aspects of the story through the eyes of the characters involved and having ideas how they should interact with each other ..... being able to see what perils may lay ahead for the team .... being able to protect both your vision and your team while crossing the "ocean of shortcomings" ... being able to stand tall when the s**t hit's the fan.... and .... and.... and.....

This is directing a film. So a director should primarily know how to direct. Like a conductor should know about conducting without being able to play all instruments in the orchestra himself.

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

I directed my first movie by hiring the best I could afford in every department.

When I did that first project, I did not even know the difference between a prime lens and a zoom. (I trusted the DP and his team for that.)
The result was a product that looked and sounded very good but suffered in pacing and storytelling.

No matter how brilliant the technical team, storytelling is the true monster.
Back then I could thumb-suck a great story at any time and write it convincingly to boot. Creating a symphony of sound, picture and quality acting however, is an entirely other monster.

Thus I stepped away from the medium budget world and committed myself to make micro budget features until I get the hang of proper story telling with my Af100 and the odd F3 here and there - this under pseudonyms so that I can make glorious mistakes before I direct my 'second' feature.

I have a few friends (Directors/Producers) who have taken this route before they release their 'first' movie (and win acclaim + awards for a spectacular 'debut').


Now, in line with the thoughts in this thread:

The Director is a conductor, someone with the ability to bring together the brilliant technical abilities of the different departments to tell a 90 minute story with the right beat and pace.

Visual storytelling is much more than merely getting the recipe right on paper, it is all about rhythm, falling at the right places and lifting in the right places - Achieved through a combination of visual, musical and many other factors that simply cannot be taught.
Even if you have the 'eye' and the 'ear', you need the 'practice' - years of finely tuning your own personal recipe. (Or a wonderful fairy godfather like Peter Jackson to make you re-shoot and re-edit your mistakes over and over so that your Alien squatter camp movie is a brilliant, box office smashing end product.)
We all wish for the fairy godfather who would see our potential and make magic happen for us, but the lucky few get those breaks and their learning experience is massively accelerated.
They make magic because they are surrounded by magicians! This is a simple truth!

When I start spending bigger money on movies, I shall once again hire the best tech geniuses I can afford because they are the finely tuned instruments of my symphony and they truly make or break the end product. (I am becoming a lot more confident and competent as a visual storyteller and am really looking forward to next year.)

To assume that hiring top end guys that would make me (and my movie) look good is the action of a 'prima donna' is about as intelligent as hiring the worst builders to work on your house.
How the heck do I make a beautiful symphony without competent musicians?

7D or Arriflex, you still need people who know what they are doing! The budget might change but the principles will always remain the same!

In the end, I had to catch up with the orchestra, get basic knowledge of every instrument and practice my storytelling skills before I could become a worthy conductor.
Just because you can play the hell out of a Bassoon it doesn't mean you can conduct the hell out of an orchestra!

Film making is like any company, everyone wants to be the MD or CEO and assume they can do a better job than the current one, but in the words of the Highlander: "There can only be one.".

 

[Ted Spencer]

^ Really great post. So many major issues, both positive and negative, very well expressed and backed by first-hand experience. Love it.

I'll be directing my first short in 2012. While I've done lots of shooting, editing, lighting, sound, music, acting, scriptwriting, directing (of smaller, non-narrative-film things) and so on, I fully expect a good deal of this experience to represent 'training wheels' for me, since it's my first attempt at this exact thing, at this level of expectation. I plan to assemble the best cast and crew I can afford and all that good stuff, and have spent a large amount of time writing the script, but I recognize that in spite of all that (and in keeping with your experiences so well laid out above), I still might well produce a failure. If so, that's ok - I'm prepared. And if so, like you, I'll just bury it. No one ever has to know about that POS I made on my maiden voyage. Into the 'hall of experience' it will go, and much learning will ensue from it.

But if I've learned enough by now, and am lucky enough, it will come out really well. I've seen it happen with others. If that's the case, then perhaps it'll be time to take on the much bigger risks/rewards of making a feature.

But I ain't gonna be jumpin' outta no nest until I know a little more about flyin'... : )

 

[Ted Spencer]

So a director should primarily know how to direct. Like a conductor should know about conducting without being able to play all instruments in the orchestra himself.

Perfect analogy

 

[gonzo_entertainment]

"Lots and lots of people, many of them very similar in their point of view to yours, do it just that way. The problem is that what they produce is statistically overwhelmingly likely to become part of the well-known '99% of all movies' that are commonly lumped together in the category known (to film festival screeners in particular) as "crap"."

Wise words my friend.

The importance of storyboards/shotlists will become apparent the first time you start editing and realize "Oh ****, those two shots won't edit together because I should have gotten a shot of..."

There is an old cliche', "jack of all trades, master of none".

 

[gonzo_entertainment]

Perfect analogy

Yes it is.

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

The importance of storyboards/shotlists will become apparent the first time you start editing and realize "Oh s**t, those two shots won't edit together because I should have gotten a shot of..."

Hahahahahahahahaha.

40 days on set, multiple angles and multiple variables with multiple crew fatigue moments all thrown together for an exciting edit where you utilize multiple expletives multiple times.

Pick ups... the savior of all film makers.

 

[gonzo_entertainment]

I made my first film the same way as you Wilbur. I wrote a script, hired the best pro crew I could afford, and shot it. The results are technically pretty good, but the pacing is terrible and my storytelling skills needed work.

 

[Ted Spencer]

Story is king, I (and many others) like to say...

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

Story is king, I (and many others) like to say...

Telling a story visually is so insanely hard that you need every drop of help you can get to make it really good!

You need a spectacular, creative Cinematographer to come up with a vision through the lens you would never have thought of, scene by scene, perspective by perspective.
You need a set designer and an art department who see the big picture with you and notice the little things that make everything so much bigger and better.
You need a sound design and recording team who obsess over the details of their craft with a passionate aggression that will boost the sheer presence of your visual presentation exponentially.
..and the list goes on.

Film making is the ultimate coming together of all the creative arts in existence and demands more focus and discipline than us creatives like to give. It is the joining together of scientists and artists to push the limits of our manifest imagination.

I love the fact that I can daydream about a Mage, locked in a dungeon, rescued by a beautiful warrior princess with a pet shark who walks on land with lazers on his head and then actually make it real and exciting for others to watch by pointing a camera at stuff.

As much as I respect the lone rangers, teamwork makes every possibility of your imagination so much easier to achieve.

I understand the OP's point, back in the day maybe, but these days you can do it all with a PC, a DSLR and a bunch of very enthusiastic Nerds!
Each Nerd to his post, kicking ass in his field and you have the potential to make something awesome!

Dammit I love my job!