noticing a trend

I think your original question was answered quite well in two separate posts.

1st, you can't do it all yourself. R. Rodriguez being the exception that proves the rule, moviemaking takes collaboration. If you want to direct, then direct; you want to be a DP then do that. People need to stop trying to mediocre at everything and become great at one thing.

2nd, get yourself a mentor. The biggest cause of all these poor quality indy's is people's desire to skip the apprenticeship process and jump right into running everything. You will learn more working for a experienced professional for a week then you will from any book or weekend course.

Thinking you can pick up a camera and learn how to shoot like the top end, highly paid pros in a short amount of time show a complete lack of respect for the talent and experience these people have earned through a long hard career. It is precisely these people that others in here are referring to when then talk about "kids" who are going to burn out of this field really fast and be selling us their used equipment for cheap :)

You want film look? Save the $10,000+ you are going to spend on your DV camera and support equipment and rent a super16 for your shoot. In the end film is actually much easier to light well and more suited for a novice then trying to make DV look acceptable...Red might be the milestone that changes this but for now that is the truth.

Cheers
 
Jim Brennan said:
Exactly the point. To me "film look" is progressive at 24 frames per second, because that's how we see film when it is projected. Everything else is a stylistic choice, including shallow DOF, grain and whatever else you throw into the mix. Others feel differently.
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Well said. In stead of someone claming that they want the film look, they should be more specific, like I want to get the look of the scene in casino where Robert DeNiro blows up in the car.

Super 8 home movies are the film look, but I doubt that many people who ask about film look are refering to that type of example
 
wabbit said:
1st, you can't do it all yourself. R. Rodriguez being the exception that proves the rule, moviemaking takes collaboration. If you want to direct, then direct; you want to be a DP then do that. People need to stop trying to mediocre at everything and become great at one thing.
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Glad you brought that up. I get so sick of people touting him as the reason they can break in, and do it all. For starters, the guy made a ton of shorts before El Mariachi, so he actually had lots of experience. But more relevant to your comment, I have never seen a Rodriguez film that would not have been better if he didn't give up a bit of the reins. The guy writes, shoots, directs and edits, and has his hands in most of the rest of the process. I'm not saying he shouldn't do that, because they are his movies, and he gets to make that choice. But the movies suffer for that myopic vision, and limited skill set. Nobody is that good at everything; not Welles, not Ford, not Hawkes, not Spielberg, not Tarantino, not the Coens....nobody. Collaboration is key.
 
Zak Forsman said:
right, if you want to be taken seriously, you can't just mimic the look with technology. you also need to acquire an understanding of color, composition, light, line, shape, direction, rhythm, perspective, intent, motivation, psychology, history, philosphy, language, love, hate, music, sexuality, spirituality, deception, compassion, race, politics.... and a million other things. i know this goes without saying, but the 24p thing doesn't really rank that high on the list of essentials unless your filmmaking goals are limited by a desire to emulate your favorite director. generally speaking, mimicry is a good way to learn, but you're not going to get noticed by trying to look like someone else. find your own voice. that imo, will raise your game infinitely higher than any technological advantage. my 2¢.
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I agree. GOOD filmmaking really trancends technicalities. Look at a film like Apocolypse now or The Godfather. Those films really take you to another place. They're both very story driven and the director and cinematographer really pull you into the mood of the situation. You really get a chance to wrap your brain around the story and let it create a whole new world for you. My next feature project is going to be like that. It's going to be a social drama...

Films should drag you in from every angle, story, production design, cinematography, direction, atmosphere... it's more than just technical issues. This is where the art comes into play. Take any other art form and see how it draws the viewer in. Paintings do. Music does. Jazz musicians can inspire a mood and there's nothing more than musical instruments, which, technically, anyone could play. But the artist makes it special.
 
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tommyinla said:
........ Paintings do. Music does. Jazz musicians can inspire a mood and there's nothing more than musical instruments, which, technically, anyone could play. But the artist makes it special.
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Well if you're not watching the musicians live then they are suppling the content, the recordist is documenting it on a medium so anyone can experience it. That makes the person doing the recording part of the overall artistic package.

Years ago the recording industry went through an overhaul with home studios becoming affordable to the average person. Ironically(or predictably?) technology made it possible for people without any technical backgrounds or desire to understand the technology to make some ground breaking recordings. Home studios are the norm' now and people without any "proper" training are advancing the art beyond the imagination, and to the displeasure of the old guard.
I believe the same overhaul the recording industry went through 15 years ago with the advent of "ADATs" progressing to DAWs, the movie industry is now going through low cost high rez cameras, NLE's and computers that keep getting more powerful and far more easy to use.

I'm not saying that the need for the experts will ever go away, it's just a great time to be a creative person.

DDP
 
"R. Rodriguez being the exception that proves the rule, moviemaking takes collaboration."

No exception, not even him. He's definitely a genius and he makes good movies. But I've talked to no less than 3 people who consistently work on his movies, people who would be department heads, except that Rodriguez tweaks minute detials in their work and then steals the credit.

He did El Mariachi with virtually no resources or crew. Everything since is obvioulsy well delegated. Thousands of FX shots could hardly be done without collaboration.

The issue wouldn't be an annoyance except that students read "Rebel Without a Crew" and almost instantly sign on to this mindset that delegration is somehow a weakness. That nobody can do the job better than yourself. Many film students scoff at the concept of departments, opting instead to try everything themselves.
 
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Knoxworth said:
The issue wouldn't be an annoyance except that students read "Rebel Without a Crew" and almost instantly sign on to this mindset that delegration is somehow a weakness. That nobody can do the job better than yourself. Many film students scoff at the concept of departments, opting instead to try everything themselves.
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And they are in for the shock of their life, when the going gets rough and they crumble under the pressure. Rodriguez may claim to do it all himself, but that is stealing credit. I think what makes him stand out, is the ability to create scenes for next to nothing. That creative talent will get you far.
 
What is the deal with Rodriguez???

Sure, he's a good director, but he's probably the most overrated & overhyped director of all time. Seems like anyone under the age of 25 elevates Rodriguez to a godlike status. He has skills, however he pales in comparison to Kubrick, Scorsese, Hitchcock, etc. You could easily list 100 directors that have a better portfolio than Rodriguez. El Mariach - get over it. If the kids could take off the Rodriguez glasses for a minute or two they might learn a few things from the other directors out there.

*end Rodgriiguez rant.*
carry on.
 
Like Tarantino, I like Rodriguez for what he has been able to accomplish more than his his actual films. Part of it was hard work, part taking a risk, part talent and part good timing. But what he did was pretty amazing with El Mariachi. I understand why people find it so inspiring. Even a jaded old guy like myself.

But I completely agree regarding his skill set. His profile is what it is as much from hype as content. At least that's the way I see it.
 
Well, one interesting thing i noted when working with some film students one time was, all of them wante to be "directors". noone was willing to be a Boom OP for aday, a DP for a day, an AD for a day. it is interesting, i cant tell if i agree with the mindset or not. I agree with being focused on your own specialty. I personally dont call mysefl a Filmmaker, Director or writer. Im a DP. thats what i do. BUT, on the other hand, if a friend or classmate needs a hand i will glady help. so i was kinda on the fence about peoples behaviour.
 
TimurCivan said:
Im a DP. thats what i do. BUT, on the other hand, if a friend or classmate needs a hand i will glady help.
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great, I was looking for someone to put in charge of keeping the honey wagon clean!!!
 
But there is a difference between helping out/filling in, getting experience, etc and believing you are good enough to do all of these things on a professional level.
 
TimurCivan said:
Zak, is a honey wagon something "awesome" or something not so "awesome".....
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a honey wagon is an awesome name for something not so awesome. it's a portable bathroom.

honey1tn.jpg
 
I think you have it backwards Tommy- You eat the burritos at the craft truck, leave the crap at the honey truck...
 
A PA will carry you up the steps in the event you can't do so yourself. Once you're inside, you're on your own.

e
 
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