Noticeable Pitch Shift?

D

davidsetagaya

Member
Hi, I was just wondering how noticeable is the pitch shift of shooting in 25 fps and converting into 24 fps.

Musically speaking, I guess this would be a quarter-step difference, which doesn't sound like much.

I know we do this all the time to convert hollywood videos to DVD's.

Just want to hear other's opinions about this process, because it's one of my fears of buying a Z1.

Also, since I'm a music video director, would I have to speed up the bands' audio while I shoot and sync by 4% to match the original audio that I use that will be 4% slower in its original form? Or perhaps it'll just be easier to keep it sped up?

cheers,
david
 
pitch shift

pitch shift

hi videoteque73,

thanks for the response. Yeah, since this 4% conversion happens all the time in Hollywood, I assumed it'd be good enough. However, this doesn't always mean it'd be the best option, of course.

I'll (possibly) be using a sony Z1 to record music videos, using the Cineframe 25 mode, which as I assume everyone knows, captures at a PAL rate.

Since I'm based in Japan, end product will almost always be viewed in the NTSC format (not film), so I'll need to change this Cineframe 25 into NTSC I assume?
(I think the main problem here is syncing the music when shooting the video)

Is this another ugly conversion I have to do? Could anyone share their experience with this type of work-flow?

Thanks for the knowledge everyone, I'm pretty weak on the technical side of all this.

cheers,
david
 
davidsetagaya said:
(I think the main problem here is syncing the music when shooting the video)

Is this another ugly conversion I have to do? Could anyone share their experience with this type of work-flow?
Click to expand...
If you purchase CineForm Connect HD you can shoot CF25 and capture to 24p adding the 4% slowdown during the capture. So you don't have to do anything special. The file you capture will be 23.976 fps. You can print this to DVD as 24p MPEG2 and let the DVD player do the telecine to NTSC.

~jr
 
syncing issues

syncing issues

Hi JohnnyRoy,

Thanks for that reply. It sounds like that program would be great for my use, except I'm on FCP. Is there a similar solution for FCP?

Has anyone used this for music videos out there?

I'm just concerned because when I have the artist on location, they'll be lip-syncing to the original version of the song, which is usually played over a loud speaker.

When I import the audio again into FCP, the speed of the video will have changed, which means I'll have to import a pitch-shifted version of this audio I guess. If my math is correct, I'd have to pitch-shift the original song approx 4.27% higher to match the new video. (Side note: Does anyone know if FCP can do this? Or maybe Soundtrack Pro? (hope I don't have to buy Logic for this)

Does anyone know if this is the best method for my situation? Sorry, I'm pretty new with this PAL / NTSC / 24fps conversion stuff, but would really like to use this Z1 for some creative gigs.

Thanks for the help!

david

Also, thank you to all the experts out there who help out the newbies like myself. I hope I can speak for all of us when I say we appreciate it.
 
As far as I know you should do this.

Do not do anything in the stage to alter the pitch or speed of music.

In movies, here in Europe, and when recording in 25p to be displayed at 24 frames per second in a theater, the usual thing is to change the music pitch a little bit, so it matches the original composition.
In human voices i think it is no noticeable.

If you want to do a test do this.
Put Blade runner soundtrack on a cd, and the blade runner dvd movie in PAL on the dvd player. Go to the last scene, where Batty speaks poetry. Try to sincronize both. After one minute you will notice that DVD is a little ahead of the music because it goes faster. But the pitch change is not noticeable.

Funny example. Lol
 
davidsetagaya said:
It sounds like that program would be great for my use, except I'm on FCP. Is there a similar solution for FCP?
Click to expand...
Sorry I use Sony Vegas so I’m not sure what you’d have to do in FCP. Vegas can slow the song down on the timeline and maintain the key of the song quite easily (i.e., time-stretch and maintain pitch).

One option for you might be to work entirely in PAL. Shoot CF25, capture at 50i and do the entire project in 50i this way everything stays in sync. Then do your final render to 24p and everything will be slowed down together (in sync) for final delivery.

~jr
 
Ahh.....ok, now I understand.
Yeah, that sounds like an easier workflow solution. Thanks for the tip!
I guess I'll have to try it out and see what works best.

thanks for the help!
david
 
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