Not again!!! Another HVX-LEX Short.

Douglas Villalba

Douglas Villalba

Well-known member
I just finished filming another presentation with the HVX-LEX.

I couldn't wait to finish editing, so I had to post it.

Oh, I love how simple it is to use.

Tell me what you think....

2 minutes


EDITED SEE THE BOTTOM REPLY
 
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I want to use some of these clips for my demo.

Before I decide on what to use I would like your opinion on which one of the 3 styles you like better.

http://www.mediafire.com/?4zz2ltdwyty

http://www.mediafire.com/?cvymymb1nee

http://www.mediafire.com/?cznjmmdiy1t

Also if you have any opinion on changes that may improve it, I will appreciate it.

It would be nice if you can also tell me were you live so I can better understand what people like in different parts of the world.

Thanks in advance
 
Hi Douglas,

I watched the 3 segments and here is my opinion (please consider this as a constructive criticism)

-The segments are edited in the "dragnet" style. line-cut-line-cut-line-cut...etc.
-The lighting is extremely flat, there appears to a lot of range in the camera, maybe it can be stretched in post.
-The camera dolly movement crosses over motion axis rules (just like the 180 degree axis rule, there are rules for moving cameras).
- The shot with the girl playing video game looks more like a balancing problem then a dutch angle and it's not well placed within the story.
-Some scenes require ADR.

Background: I'm from east coast but travel very frequently to LA for work. DoP, Steadicam Op/owner.

Good luck with your segment.
Emre Tufekci
www.productionpit.com
 
who actually have you made if for?

My constructive critique, and please I think you did a good job, it has a nice look to it. But...

The biggest problem I had was the dialogue was very wooden and unnatural. People just don't talk like that.

Some of the camera dolly moves were wobbly and too many, one after another was too much. I would like to have seen at least a couple of close ups of the screen, although I expect there wasn't really a survey there, but there should be.

It was for me way too long, should have been half the length. Also by cutting to each of the people as they talk hard with no overlap makes it look quite fake. For example one of the girls could be talking, cut back to mum before the end to get her reaction then she talks or vice versa. By doing it the way you did it doesn't look like it happened in real time.

Good luck with it!

Phil

I work in London as a freelance DP, Editor and Director
 
philip bloom said:
Some of the camera dolly moves were wobbly and too many, one after another was too much. I would like to have seen at least a couple of close ups of the screen, although I expect there wasn't really a survey there, but there should be.
Click to expand...

... and on the all shots with very shallow DOF, I had a feeling like the background is actually chroma - keyed and not from DOF adapter.. Kind of very unnatural..

But if the castumer is happy with it :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG), why to worry.. of course, it is in your interes to do as best as it can be..
 
Thank you both for your response.

I didn't want say how it all came to be, so here is the whole story.

For me it was just a good practice with my HVX-LEX. I was looking to see the regular response. What lens did you use? or I like bokeh on the SG better. That is what I was trying out in these clips. I guess I was lucky and got two real pros to answer it by not commenting on those points. I assume that you didn't see anything wrong with it.

By the way I used a Nikkor 24 mm f2.8, Tokina 28 -70 mm f4 and a Nikkor 80-200 mm f2,8 at max aperture. The camera was set at f2,8 with the shutter at 180 deg. zoom at 20 mm. It was a bright sunny day in florida, so it is hard to compete with the sun. I only used 5 small tungsten lights to get some contrast highlight special areas that where dark.

Now the actual work.

My sister is a regional manager for the store that was mention during the dialog, so I do help her out doing some of her videotaping.

The "actors" were actual store managers. One from Maryland the other from Central Florida and the third from Tennessee "Mom".

The finished work is for an internal presentation that the managers do during their national store manager's meetings(NO BUDGET). The other regions had done it with their home cameras so this year they were the only one chosen to do a video because they liked what I did for them last year "daaah"

They are all in their mid 20s and we couldn't keep my sister's dog out of the picture.
They wrote the script themselves so you know it had a bunch of holes in it. They met at my sister's house at 11:00 AM that day with a paper full of graffiti "THE SCRIPT". Much better than last year. At least they put it in writing this time.

The crew (ME, MYSELF and I) arrived early to bring down the equipment. I didn't know what we were doing until they arrived so I didn't know what or where to setup.

Did I tell you that it had to be overnighted to their big boss for approval?

Well, it got out as you saw the first one without color correction or nothing. :2vrolijk_08:


I am only using 1 or 2 clips out of all I shot, but I wanted some feed back on the look of the HVX-LEX since it is only the second time I use it for "PAID" (lunch and dinner:crybaby:). The first time I was a GlideCam specialist so I was doing what the director wanted. My shot was 3 seconds for a 30 seconds commercial on a yacht.


emretufekci said:
Hi Douglas,

I watched the 3 segments and here is my opinion (please consider this as a constructive criticism)

-The segments are edited in the "dragnet" style. line-cut-line-cut-line-cut...etc.
Click to expand...
I agree. If I had more time and a real script I would have done a better job.
The lighting is extremely flat, there appears to a lot of range in the camera, maybe it can be stretched in post.
Click to expand...
Could you maybe elaborate on this. I don't understand "a lot of range"
The camera dolly movement crosses over motion axis rules (just like the 180 degree axis rule, there are rules for moving cameras).
Click to expand...
I am almost sure of what you are saying, but I want to make sure I got you. Could you tel me where in the clip you saw it.[/quote]
The shot with the girl playing video game looks more like a balancing problem then a dutch angle and it's not well placed within the story.
-Some scenes require ADR.
Click to expand...
Here I agree again. I don't want to sound like I have an excuse for everything, but I do:undecided. Those were B roll that I had done on my own. before we started going by the script. The shot were the girl with the dog was complaining and the mom turn around, that shot was a repeat of another shot that had been used before. They actually forgot in the script to have the girl complaining again so I used what I had with the time I had.

By the way what is ADR? I have ADD but what is ADR :undecided[/quote]
Background: I'm from east coast but travel very frequently to LA for work. DoP, Steadicam Op/owner.

Good luck with your segment.
Emre Tufekci
www.productionpit.com
Click to expand...
Where in the east coast.

Thanks for your comments.

philip bloom said:
who actually have you made if for?

My constructive critique, and please I think you did a good job, it has a nice look to it. But...

The biggest problem I had was the dialogue was very wooden and unnatural. People just don't talk like that.
Click to expand...
Yee, Phillip I was so proud of my directing. You blew my bobble. Have you ever tried to direct none actors with 3 different accents in their mid 20s to play 2 girls and their mom? Just kidding Phillip.

I am one of you followers. I really enjoy watching your shorts. Specially the ones that you go out on your own to create.[/quote]

Some of the camera dolly moves were wobbly and too many, one after another was too much. I would like to have seen at least a couple of close ups of the screen, although I expect there wasn't really a survey there, but there should be.
Click to expand...
I know what you are saying. Those were the clips that I needed for my REEL, but you are right they were to many for the story.[/quote]

It was for me way too long, should have been half the length. Also by cutting to each of the people as they talk hard with no overlap makes it look quite fake. For example one of the girls could be talking, cut back to mum before the end to get her reaction then she talks or vice versa. By doing it the way you did it doesn't look like it happened in real time.

Good luck with it!

Phil

I work in London as a freelance DP, Editor and Director
Click to expand...
It was suppose to be a 15 minutes presentation and we only had 2 minutes.

The way I cut it was by scenes and pasted them together in order. There was really no time to do anything more for them.

I personally don't need a story, just some clips to add to my reel. I didn't have any reason to re edit something just to post it here. I was just looking for comments on the HVX-LEX shots, but I am glad you guys went off in a different direction.

I can always learn more from a critique than from praise.

Thank you both.
 
Knowing the background makes the whole things make a lot more sense. Without knowing what your limitations are it's difficult to give you proper critique.

It looked 99% better than most corporate stuff I see. With your limitations and using amateurs who wrote their own dialogue (!) you did very very well!

Keep up the good work, your next piece will be better and then on etc...

It's a brave man that posts on these forums and asks for opinions! Glad you took the critique well!
 
leteeci said:
... and on the all shots with very shallow DOF, I had a feeling like the background is actually chroma - keyed and not from DOF adapter.. Kind of very unnatural..

But if the castumer is happy with it :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG), why to worry.. of course, it is in your interes to do as best as it can be..
Click to expand...
Sorry leteeci I started writing at 5:00 AM went to church in the morning, had breadfast, had some realtor come to my house(I am selling it) and had lunch. I just posted it and you had already another post.

It is normal to have a shallower DOF with longer lenses. It is not even shorter DOF it is a quality of the longer lenses to bokeh (circle of confusion) more. The background is closer so the image and the back appears to be more defused.

Even at 200mm the depth was about a foot. I didn't have a focus puller and you can see that when they move they are still focus.
 
philip bloom said:
Knowing the background makes the whole things make a lot more sense. Without knowing what your limitations are it's difficult to give you proper critique.

It looked 99% better than most corporate stuff I see. With your limitations and using amateurs who wrote their own dialogue (!) you did very very well!

Keep up the good work, your next piece will be better and then on etc...

It's a brave man that posts on these forums and asks for opinions! Glad you took the critique well!
Click to expand...
I must be a masochist.

If I had given all the details before I provably would have never hear your comments.

I make sure that every day I learn something new. I feel like I had my daily fix.

Thanks
 
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Douglas Villalba said:
Sorry leteeci I started writing at 5:00 AM went to church in the morning, had breadfast, had some realtor come to my house(I am selling it) and had lunch. I just posted it and you had already another post.

It is normal to have a shallower DOF with longer lenses. It is not even shorter DOF it is a quality of the longer lenses to bokeh (circle of confusion) more. The background is closer so the image and the back appears to be more defused.

Even at 200mm the depth was about a foot. I didn't have a focus puller and you can see that when they move they are still focus.
Click to expand...

Actually, this is a prime example of what more of an "SLR" FOV looks like in comparison to 35mm FOVS.

You said your HVX was zoomed out to 20mm? 27.3 is 35mm FOV. The shots looked hyper shallow and unpleasant to me as well. But, it's not just you! Anything that's not zoomed into the proper 35mm FOV looks really awkward to me and this is just another example of why, perhaps, using the proper FOV in the first place can help your image. Not you, but in general.

=D Try it next time and let us know what you experience.
 
If the adapter were made to use motion pictures lenses then I would agree 100%.


Just think about it. A 24mm lens would look like a normal lens with a huge DOF.

I rather just use the right lens for the shot to give the look I want. I got what I wanted. You see on those extremely shallow DOF I needed the BG to disappear, because the BG had change.

With practice I am learning to control DOF while using the zoom at full SLR 35mm frame. In some of the shots I used the 24mm with the camera zoomed almost all the way. The only down side of the 35mm adapters is the light loss, but their is a lot flexibility from having 2 lenses.
 
It does the exact same thing when you zoom in and out. I know, I've done my own tests because I thought zooming in and out with a 24 or 35mm would really effect DOF. It doesn't do what you think it does.

Full SLR frame doesn't do anything but make the image look, well, you've already gotten the comments on it.

Although if it's just taste to have hyper shallow backgrounds then that's a different story.
 
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Automatic Dialogue Replacement, ADR, Dialogue Looping, Dialog Looping, Looping
The re-recording of dialogue by actors in a sound studio during post, usually performed to playback of edited picture in order to match lip movements on screen. ADR is frequently used to replace production track of poor quality (e.g., due to high levels of background noise) or to change the delivery or inflection of a line. ADR can also be used to insert new lines of dialogue which are conceived during editing, although such lines can only be placed against picture in which the face of the actor speaking is not visible.

BUT, understanding your position better and non-pro actors, no budget, I dont think it would have it would have made a difference.

In range I am referring the dynamic range of the camera, the flat lighting (which looks like you usually had one light source) can be made too look a little more interesting by pulling down the mid-range a little towards the dark and extending the highs a little brighter( there is plenty of detail in your shots) so the can be "extended" without blowing them out. This overall will create more contrast between objects and characters creating a more pleasing image.

Please note: Such manipulations are not as easy as a few tweaks like I mentioned above, I would recommend (for fun) to go see a color correction session like a DaVinci 2K to understand the true potential and possibilities. Even if you do it yourself in a program like After Effects/Color...etc its quite fun and gives you a lot of options.


For the motion I was mentioning I am going to try to find a book my teacher/mentor made me read many years ago. It really opened my eyes and helped me immensely with composing steadicam/dolly shots to cut into lock down shots.

I am in Maryland DC area.

Good luck to your sister on her business :)

PS: It probably underscan but, you can see the boom on the shot where the mother enters the room.

Emre Tufekci
www.productionpit.com
 
Douglas Villalba said:
If the adapter were made to use motion pictures lenses then I would agree 100%.


Just think about it. A 24mm lens would look like a normal lens with a huge DOF.
Click to expand...

Kholi said:
It does the exact same thing when you zoom in and out. I know, I've done my own tests because I thought zooming in and out with a 24 or 35mm would really effect DOF. It doesn't.
Click to expand...

That is exactly my point. As you can see that is what I said before.

You see you have to strike a balance between how wide you want the BG and how diffuse you want it.

For example my 24mm is very shallow under 3', but it starts to go real deep after 6'.
So in as little as 3' you can go from extremely shallow to really deep.

By the way my shots doesn't look as shallow on big screen (except for the extreme closeup that I was trying to get the BG to disappear). You need to have screen size in mind when shooting.

I personally don't like those 1" DOF even though sometimes that is exactly what you need.

As we both agree the DOP is related to the lens and not how much of the GG you use.
 
emretufekci said:
Automatic Dialogue Replacement, ADR, Dialogue Looping, Dialog Looping, Looping
The re-recording of dialogue by actors in a sound studio during post, usually performed to playback of edited picture in order to match lip movements on screen. ADR is frequently used to replace production track of poor quality (e.g., due to high levels of background noise) or to change the delivery or inflection of a line. ADR can also be used to insert new lines of dialogue which are conceived during editing, although such lines can only be placed against picture in which the face of the actor speaking is not visible.
Click to expand...

WOW, I had done that before and I didn't even know what it was.

Just that bit of info is worth this thread.

Thanks
In range I am referring the dynamic range of the camera, the flat lighting (which looks like you usually had one light source) can be made too look a little more interesting by pulling down the mid-range a little towards the dark and extending the highs a little brighter( there is plenty of detail in your shots) so the can be "extended" without blowing them out. This overall will create more contrast between objects and characters creating a more pleasing image.

Please note: Such manipulations are not as easy as a few tweaks like I mentioned above, I would recommend (for fun) to go see a color correction session like a DaVinci 2K to understand the true potential and possibilities. Even if you do it yourself in a program like After Effects/Color...etc its quite fun and gives you a lot of options.


For the motion I was mentioning I am going to try to find a book my teacher/mentor made me read many years ago. It really opened my eyes and helped me immensely with composing steadicam/dolly shots to cut into lock down shots.

I am in Maryland DC area.

Good luck to your sister on her business :)

PS: It probably underscan but, you can see the boom on the shot where the mother enters the room.

Emre Tufekci
www.productionpit.com
Click to expand...
That would be nice if you can find the name of that book.

I totally missed the boom in the shot. I was using a regular Samsung 22" LCD on set and a Plasma to edit. Never looked at the actual computer monitor.

By the way my 7 year old daughter lives with her mom in Damascus MD. So I visit her as often as I can. Perhaps one day we can meet in person.
 
Douglas Villalba said:
It is normal to have a shallower DOF with longer lenses. It is not even shorter DOF it is a quality of the longer lenses to bokeh (circle of confusion) more. The background is closer so the image and the back appears to be more defused.

Even at 200mm the depth was about a foot. I didn't have a focus puller and you can see that when they move they are still focus.
Click to expand...


No problem..



Sure, I don't have that much experiences as Philip, but maybe you can get some advice from me, also..

I understand that you get that shallow DOF from 200mm, but my point was, that I don't see the reason for use of that hyper shallow look ( as Kholi good stated ).. It would be better ( for me ) if you would have more detail ( less blur ) on the background.

I just watched your video three times more, and I would say that I didn't like how you film "mom" sitting infront of laptop.. You should go sometimes wider (to give more information about the room / interior ) and sometimes more tele..

I don't give you a bad critics, at all.. but you should understand that only the good friend will give you a sincere crytic..



When I started shooting, I asked my friend, who is years long cameran, how my video is..and he said that it is interesting, but that I have all the same shots.. I was a little mad than..but later, I noticed that I really had only two or three kind of shoots ( framing )..



You didn't had focus puller..



For a shooting like that you need a skater dolly.. Than you will stay in the same orbit, and you could pull focus easier by yourself, if there is no other possibility.

I don't know what kind of dolly you are using, but if you plan to shoot more like this in future; make yourself plywood-skater now. It is not that expensive.




And another thing...

I am working "last minute" / half to non prepared / without crew..work every day.. I work with people that are non-actors, non-jornalists..actually students with no experience and (sometimes) not much talent..every day..

and I am a freelancer...

But my work is screened on National TV.. And when people watching that program, they will not care, what my problems were.. If I had light, if I had microphone, good actor..etc.




"But if the castumer is happy with it :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG), why to worry.. "

it is true.. If they are happy, you can go away with it.
Course it could be better, you know that... But in that case, they would need to hire a big production house, who would come with bigger team, more equipment..and would cost ten to twenty times more...



Keep on with good work and try always to improve a little bit more.



Sorry for the long post,

cheers :beer:

david
 
Off topic here.

I notice in one of your post that you had a JVC GY-DV500. I have one that I haven't use since the FX1 came out and I provably should sell it. How mush can I get for it if I put it on ebay?

I have a 4 LP battery charger, a power supply and a Varizoom zoom controller.

Thanks again.

PS. Is there a link to some of your work. It is hard to find good work like Phillip Bloom here. I can learn a lot from actual work.
 
Douglas Villalba said:
I notice in one of your post that you had a JVC GY-DV500. I have one that I haven't use since the FX1 came out and I provably should sell it. How mush can I get for it if I put it on ebay?
Click to expand...

Hard to tell, because I live in Europe, and here are a little bit different prices..
If you don't use it, sell it fast as you can.. because everybody tend to upgrade to HDV, and prices on miniDV fall rapidly..

I will post some videos soon.. I planned to catch the last train for lovefest, but at end I got some important TV work to do, and nothing happened..


.
 
New edit does look a lot better with those changes, eg: line cutting.
I too like showing off nikon bokeh :)
Off topic, but song played throughout is quite destracting and gets annoying over dialogue. Perhaps reduce it to begining/conclusion?
 
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