Not a Happy Camper

S

sonisfear

Well-known member
Last night I tried a live switch commercial event.

I had a dvx100, Hd100 and sony FX1 connected to the V440HD (sweet)
all was going well until they lowered the lights for a power point presentation.

FX1 worked great I am loving this cam the more I use it. Last night I gave this cam to a complete novice. This guy had edited for me but never ever has touch a cam. His shots were amazing. Free hand... that stabilizer is really good. The dvx100 ofcourse its a work horse never fails. The V440Hd upconverted its DV output to 1080I on fly beautifully. It ofcourse doesn't look like HD but its is uprez nice enough that the viewer would not get distracted from the subject.

Anyway the Split screen came up big and obvious for the first time with cam. I am not sure what conditions make it appear but the channel while the lights was dim was not usable. and It was set with the best angle because it is suppose to be my best cam.

Hmmm... I am not happy about that for the amount of money I paid for this cam I have been bitting the bullet on this flaw but after last night it bugs me.

Meanwhile my trusty Sony FX1 has been reminding me of my old trusty DVX100 lately. Just doing what its suppose to do.

auto focusing
image Stabilizing
cost effective
battery efficient little friend

Hhmmm....

If there are any JVC people reading this a very good customer is not happy...
 
Well, the SSE is an obvious problem in this scenario. Was it not showing up in your monitor/VF while shooting? Nobody around here is happy to hear SSE stories.

Beyond that- I'm not sure what your point is in the second half of your post. The FX-1 is a fine camera and a great value, but if AF, OIS, and battery efficiency are of major importance to you, why in the world would you buy an HD100? The JVC is a pro ENG-style camera, that means it's not going to have any worthwhile auto features and it's going to require a pro battery kit.

What you're basically saying here is, "I have a dog and a cat. I'm upset with my dog for being a dog, but I'm sure proud of my cat for being a cat..."
 
Noooooooooo....

What he is saying is that the Spilt Screen is p***ing him off.

-

I find it odd people have went forward with this camera knowing it does this. Is this something is rampant on all cameras or is this a recall issue ? Has it been corrected ?
 
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I new about and don't mind the lack of auto focus and stabilization. Really.. it dosent bother me. It means simply mean that I can't hand the cam to a trainee and expect he/she to do a pro gig.

But the SSE thing is a real big problem... I love this cam but I am beginning to wonder if I should have just bought two FX1 and make my life simpler.

Last night was a really big/ important operation for me... and the only hitch was the SSE...

How am I going to explain the few shots that had the sse in it and why do I hafto avoid switching to my supposed prize camera.

While my little FX1 for a little more than half the price is a star in the hands of a novice.

I am disappointed!! The cam for the most part has been great. I invested in this cam to assist me in moving to the next level which to me is corporate gigs. I can get away with in some degree the SSE with weddings but not corporate gigs.

Is JVC going to do (firmware upgrade that compensates) something about this?
 
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John, let's not stir up the whys and whatevers. It does a fine job under most circumstances.

But no, the SSE cannot be eliminated, according to JVC. It cannot be "fixed" by firmware. They can put it through an extensive calibration process to minimize it happening, but it is part of the nature of the product and is the design tradeoff that was necessary in order to give the unit 1280x720 pixels.

It doesn't show up in most circumstances, but sometimes it does, and if you want to use the HD100, you have to be prepared to accept that. Some people never run into the issue, some (like sonisfear) don't have it for a long time and then they run into circumstances where it rears its head. Every HD100 has the potential to show it, and every HD100 ever made from here on out will have that potential. But you can take steps to make it happen less frequently.

Sonisfear, if you haven't done so already, you can send your HD100 into JVC to get it calibrated, there are reports that JVC has a new automated calibration facility in California that can get the two halves to match better. I'm sure Stephen or Tim will ring in with more information on how to do that.
 
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sonisfear said:
I new about and don't mind the lack of auto focus and stabilization. Really.. it dosent bother me. It means simply mean that I can't hand the cam to a trainee and expect he/she to do a pro gig.

But the SSE thing is a real big problem... I love this cam but I am beginning to wonder if I should have just bought two FX1 and make my life simpler.

Last night was a really big/ important operation for me... and the only hitch was the SSE...

How am I going to explain the few shots that had the sse in it and why do I hafto avoid switching to my supposed prize camera.

While my little FX1 for a little more than half the price is a star in the hands of a novice.

I am disappointed!! The cam for the most part has been great. I invested in this cam to assist me in moving to the next level which to me is corporate gigs. I can get away with in some degree the SSE with weddings but not corporate gigs.

Is JVC going to do (firmware upgrade that compensates) something about this?
Click to expand...


Sonisfear...it really does suck that it happened. I started a thread a while ago at dvinfo about the first occurence of SSE that we experienced. As I noted, we were fortunate that it was a simple pickup that happened after a shoot, but it was in daylight at 0db.
I wanted people to be aware that it isn't simply a low light/high gain issue.
I contacted JVC and got an immediate response.
When did you purchase the camera?
Email me directly (jimagine@direcway.com) and I'll help you out.
 
Barry you are correct and I admittedly should have chosen a better way to say it. No offense intended anyone.

I meant specifically, my opinion is that with this issue on a product it is unbecoming. This is not a subjective opinion but an issue that seems unnaccetable to all parties; even those who have chosen to 'deal with it'

But, I have not bought this camera and do not have to deal with it. Just a observation on this side of the pastor.


I'd suggest not being too quick on the draw guy's and looking to hard for a fight.

-

Let's remember it's a camera were talking about. I'm not making a reference to your girlfriends. Jeez.

And Pappas ? I'm taking the high ground on that one (Just this once)
 
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In an attempt to avert a flame war, posts have been edited to tone down this conversation and keep it on track.

Let us please keep it on track.
 
Hmm, maybe I'm just lucky or maybe I just now how to use the HD100 but I don't have any issues with SSE.

What concerns me most is that you are worried about how your clients will react when they see the SSE but you are not worried about how they will react when the see the footage cptured by doing a multi-cam "switched" event with 3 different cameras of different makes, models, and resolution - two of them being uprezed to 1080.
 
JVC is about to make a big announcement very soon. What I hear is this is a move that no other company has done. Rumor is a A version is coming, not just a SW upgrade. This A version everyone will get, even past buyers. They will earn infinite respect if such an action is commenced......

The footage from the HD100 speaks for itself.

Have a look. In camera Black and White and Color footage. I recommend if you have not seen the B&W ( Refinery ) footage, it's worth the look, as well all those clips with the march 13 date.

Here is the link:

Link: http://homepage.mac.com/PappasArts

If that link doesn't work, try this:

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/...TE- HD100 24p HD&templatefn=FileSharing1.html

You will need the VLC player to view .m2t clips

Link: http://www.videolan.org/

Pappas
 
I notcied you are shooting a ton of B&W Michael. Any specific reasons ?

By the way; I am able to view the files using DivX
 
Well thanks for the support guys. Barry as ussual is right. I have been using the cam for awhile. Augt 4 2005. And it has been great. I was one of the first to report the SSE issue. The store I bought it from wouldn't beleive me cause at the time they never heard of it before and was willing to swap out the cam but soon after we found (at dvxuser.com..forum rocks) that is was part of the personality of the cam. And it has appeared in a minor fashion on weds but wed cx don't care.

it is unfortunate that on this particuler gig it happened to me... And yes I am disappointed. I will get over it and maybe not sell it so quick.. But being honest I am questioning my purchase now. I want great gear I bought it because I thought it was great gear maybe I was a little to emotional about the purchase. It just looks so damn cool. But having both cams at times I like the FX better and at times I like the Hd100 better but not knowing when this SSE thing is going to happen "pop its ugly head" is unacceptable in this level of gear.

I had ZERO gain no change in settings and a very obvious split screen.

Beleive it or not the V440HD makes nice work of upconverting anything. Even the DVX100 was looking decent.

I would take the upconverted DVX100 over that split screen any day. I have showed the Video to friends and my wife and ask which cam is not HD. The response I get is a delayed hesitant this one (dvx100) but the lay person must look for it (they get it right though).

then I don't say anthing and the split screen comes up and right away my wife is like what's that.

Its obvious.

After typing this I do feel like selling it.
 
Hi John!

I have been shooting Black & White forever. Medium format B&W was my favorite. As well high speed B&W. For 35mm/16mm 5231-7231 is very nice as well reversal. The reason is, I love the look of B&W. Working in B&W is so liberating and has an entirely different lighting style. It's going to die as another photographic expression style is my concern. I shot a days worth of 18db B&W in camera with the HD100. Oh man, I believe it's the best yet. I am going to upload those in a day or two. I would love to shoot a classy model shoot in B&W with high gain, to give it a grit. There is something about hot women in grainy B&W.

And about grain/noise. I love grain and miss it. That's the one biggest issue I have with digital, it's to damn clean. I don't mind the image starting out that way from the factory ( love options ), however, it's just to pristine. I saw a F900 film at a studio screening. My biggest gripe over an over was it's to damn clean. It takes on a plastic look. I would love to do black & white with the HVX, it has a core richness to it that I believe would lend to an awesome image. I wish I could have HVX for two or three weeks, I know I can get great images out of that camera because it's got richness to it. People bag on the HVX, however I have seen the film out so unless we all smoked a good bowl with out knowing it before the screening, it held up great!

The H1, is a resolution whore, yet I still love the richness of the HD100's image.
That's why the HD100 keeps hanging on in the testing stage! Resolution is only one factor I tell everyone. How well does it handle light on objects like skin and clothe etc. Does the image have a depth of richness to it in color and B&W. The HD100 does in both. The XLH1 has detail and res pouring our of it's ports, however I am not getting the same richness that I like with others.... It has it's own look. We are doing extensive tests, and it may be just as it is on the F900's we use, they need to be dialed in to an exact zone. We are going to use console CCU SW from Canon next to get it tweaked. Got very close yesterday on the shoot. If you don't dial those cameras in they look like flat broadcast blahhh!

What's funny is the XLH1 does not like my Tiffen ( 25 ) red filter, the image aliases in black and white when I apply it. Which is a mystery.. I have yet to shoot high gain ( 18db ) B&W on the XLH1 ( color I have ). That's next!

Divx is a cool Player John, I have that on my XPpro box. The zoom feature is cool feature as well.

Sorry for the overly long response!


Pappas


John_Hudson said:
I notcied you are shooting a ton of B&W Michael. Any specific reasons ?

By the way; I am able to view the files using DivX
Click to expand...
 
sonisfear said:
I new about and don't mind the lack of auto focus and stabilization. Really.. it dosent bother me. It means simply mean that I can't hand the cam to a trainee and expect he/she to do a pro gig.

But the SSE thing is a real big problem... I love this cam but I am beginning to wonder if I should have just bought two FX1 and make my life simpler.

Last night was a really big/ important operation for me... and the only hitch was the SSE...

How am I going to explain the few shots that had the sse in it and why do I hafto avoid switching to my supposed prize camera.

While my little FX1 for a little more than half the price is a star in the hands of a novice.

I am disappointed!! The cam for the most part has been great. I invested in this cam to assist me in moving to the next level which to me is corporate gigs. I can get away with in some degree the SSE with weddings but not corporate gigs.

Is JVC going to do (firmware upgrade that compensates) something about this?
Click to expand...
As I recall, you were one of the early adopters as well. Let's see what JVC does with the "A" version first but any way you slice it you need to get your camera calibrated. Believe me, your problems will be minimized and you'll be V440 switching with confidence.
 
All,
In case one does not like to seach previous posts, SSE is no longer an issue with JVC's new calibration they are currently performing.

If you have SSE, send it to JVC !

I've owned my camera for six weeks and have never seen SSE no matter how it's lit !
 
Barry_Green said:
In an attempt to avert a flame war, posts have been edited to tone down this conversation and keep it on track.

Let us please keep it on track.
Click to expand...


Great idea Barry. I'd appreciate it if you would also edit out the personal references from John that you left in the thread. I don't need public dispensation...thanks.
 
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Hey guys thanks for letting me vent. As you probably have figured out from previous posts I am a open book type person. And forums like this are a great place to vent because you are all fellow videographers that understand and even better have solutions.

Thanks for your help, I will bring it in to JVC and get it calibrated.

For potential HD100 buyers, Don't read to far into this issue. Bear- in-mind I have had this cam for 8 months with great results. My HD100 was one of the original shipments and has never been calibrated so hopefully when it worked on it will be better.

Either way I will keep the community posted.
 
Stevet said:
All,
In case one does not like to seach previous posts, SSE is no longer an issue with JVC's new calibration they are currently performing.
Click to expand...
Be careful as to what you're saying here. SSE is part of the design and may show up no matter what. What the calibration does minimizes it, but it can still happen, and JVC will not guarantee that it won't. Remember, sonisfear had his camera for 8 months before running into a problem with it, and on DVInfo Jim Gilberti relates a similar story. It happens. They cannot guarantee that it won't happen.

If you don't have SSE now, that doesn't mean it won't show up at some point. JVC will NOT guarantee that there is no SSE, they say that it can happen and that it is part and parcel of the design. It is incumbent on JVC shooters to be aware of it, and to take steps to recognize it and minimize it. The first step is to send your camera in for a proper calibration that should minimize the propensity for it to happen.
 
Barry_Green said:
Be careful as to what you're saying here. SSE is part of the design and may show up no matter what. What the calibration does minimizes it, but it can still happen, and JVC will not guarantee that it won't. Remember, sonisfear had his camera for 8 months before running into a problem with it, and on DVInfo Jim Gilberti relates a similar story. It happens. They cannot guarantee that it won't happen.

If you don't have SSE now, that doesn't mean it won't show up at some point. JVC will NOT guarantee that there is no SSE, they say that it can happen and that it is part and parcel of the design. It is incumbent on JVC shooters to be aware of it, and to take steps to recognize it and minimize it. The first step is to send your camera in for a proper calibration that should minimize the propensity for it to happen.
Click to expand...


Barry makes the salient point here and the one that I made at dvinfo in my thread about SSE at 0db in daylight. I'm really interested in seeing what the new implementation will be like, but honestly, we shot new scenes for an upcoming film with the Olympic sbowboarders...all day in similar conditions to where we saw the SSE - bright sunshine against blue sky and snowy mountains and never saw it in any of the 2 hours of footage.

From what I understand though, the new implementation being done by CA QC provides a much more critical calibration and for someone like you that had such a pronounced incident of SSE it definitely needs to be recalibrated. Once the new settings are burned into the EPROM things will probably be much more predictable.

Good luck...I'd really like to hear how it goes for you.
 
Well all is great in Sonisfear land again.

JVC Calibrated my cam yippee...

I have tried to reproduce the SSE but even the most drastic contrasts settings I must look deep to find it. Mind you its faintly their but at the level I don't care.

I love my cam again.
 
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