Noob mattebox question

modernPrimitive

modernPrimitive

Active member
Hi,

I'm looking at getting a mattebox and rails for my 7D - specifically the PROAIM but what concerns me is how the mattebox attaches to the lenses. All my lenses focus by moving the front element past the barrel so I can't get my head around how that works with a mattebox that seems to be secured to the rails (I'm going by pictures and no real-world experience of course)? Is the barrel of the lens actually meant to protrude into the mattebox?

Also, how do the different barrel sizes fit onto the mattebox? My largest lens is a Zeiss Jena Sonnar 180mm with a massive barrel (86mm thread) - fat as a big can of dog food and my smallest has a thread of 52mm.

Please enlighten me as to how this all works as I really don't want to waste money on the wrong mattebox.

thanks.
 
Hehe, I hear you Jon, but then you need one for every lens...or at least one for every size thread. Plus, not all lenses come with hoods....
 
jonE5 said:
fader ND > Mattebox

jon!
Click to expand...

If you're just looking for multiple levels of ND, sure. But what if you need to throw a couple different filters in front, or need the hood or french flags to fend off glare?

And while multiple step down rings could solve the problem of adapting to different lens sizes, a matte box is easier in that regard.
 
modernPrimitive said:
Hi,

I'm looking at getting a mattebox and rails for my 7D - specifically the PROAIM but what concerns me is how the mattebox attaches to the lenses. All my lenses focus by moving the front element past the barrel so I can't get my head around how that works with a mattebox that seems to be secured to the rails (I'm going by pictures and no real-world experience of course)? Is the barrel of the lens actually meant to protrude into the mattebox?

Also, how do the different barrel sizes fit onto the mattebox? My largest lens is a Zeiss Jena Sonnar 180mm with a massive barrel (86mm thread) - fat as a big can of dog food and my smallest has a thread of 52mm.

Please enlighten me as to how this all works as I really don't want to waste money on the wrong mattebox.

thanks.
Click to expand...

Matte boxes mounted on iris rods would be the best way to accommodate a wider variety of lenses. The rear opening of the matte box will be larger than the lens - no clamping mechanically from one to the other.

A rubber (some are like mouse pad material) or neoprene donut will cover light leaks between the lens and the back of the box, but the lens still floats inside the rough opening. A t-riser secures the matte box to the iris rods and it can move closer or farther from the camera depending on what lens you're using at the time.
 
Yeah, i guess i should have qualified my statement by saying depending on your budget you may want to start with a simple variable ND filter and a set of stepup rings so you can adjust it to all your lenses.

If you have several hundreds of dollars to blow go for it (cause thats what a decent mattebox costs. Or just DIY one.

I looked into one for a while, but in the end it just wasnt worth it for me and my uses for the cost. Our cameras are so versatile when it coems to light compared to most regular prosumer video cameras, that we can get away with some things that they never could.
 
Thanks for the explanation Erik.

I've done some more research and it seems like the PROAIM has fixed size dapter rings for a "solid fit". Might have to look for something else then...
 
jonE5 said:
Yeah, i guess i should have qualified my statement by saying depending on your budget you may want to start with a simple variable ND filter and a set of stepup rings so you can adjust it to all your lenses.
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea..thanks...will look into it.
 
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Hmm....I can't seem to find a mattebox that has a rubber donut - they all seem to have fixed adapter rings to fit directly to the lens?
 
Wait, I still don't get it - if the mattebox doesn't attach directly to the lens then how do the filters attach? Surely the front barrel of the lens can't move in and out of the mattebox if you want to use filters? (assuming we're talking about a rail system now)
 
i think you need a mattebox that has a hinge that can slide the thing out, the rails attatch to the bottom and has a hinge on the side that allows it to slide out so you can change lenses etc... the part that swivels has the filter holders and flags etc... Or at least thats how the one worked on the Red One i was workig with the other day.

4615574938_68c620951d_o.jpg
 
A good fader nd is almost as much as the PROAIM matte box your looking at. I'd get the mattebox, it allows you to use two filters at once ie... an anti moire 4x4 when they come out and an ND filter at the same time without having to use step up rings to fit every lens. Plus it gives you the sunshade, plus it looks pretty pro, which means more than alot of people take into account if your trying to rent your self and rig out. Get the PROAIM with rails as well, your gonna need a FF down the line anyway. The extra hundred bucks or so is worth it... Just my 2 cents.
 
That feature is called swing-away. You don't need it to change filters, but it does afford quick access to the front of the camera for lens changes and occasional cleaning of the lens glass. DPs often screw an optical flat or polarizing filter to the front of the lens instead of using the square filter trays - instead leaving those open for grads and other filtration that doesn't stay on the camera for sustained periods of time.

I don't recommend that ACs get accustomed to stacking filters if they can help it. Every time you need to move one on or off, you'll be fighting the others and risk introducing dust into the sealed filter train.

The swing-away is usually comprised of a 2nd set of iris rods, oriented one over the other on the dumb side of the camera. There is often a lever mechanism or set screws that allow for a quick, smaller movement toward and away from the camera. This allows the matte box to swing out to the right without getting caught up on the front of the lens.

The donuts are different and should still be used. They come in a variety of the most common barrel diameters. Additionally, you can purchase aftermarket devices for this purpose. They only need to be slightly snug on the barrel to work.

A lot of ACs I know even carry black hair scrunchies for a quick solution.

Properly outfitted cameras should have a 2 or 3 stage matte box. Like a good tripod, they work with more than one camera or lens system.
 
Well thanks everyone for the suggestions. Yes I'm planning to get some rails and a ff too.

I also had a look at the indiRails and mattebox. I've read contradictory opinions about the indi rigs but the build quality in the photographs looks pretty good (coming from advertising myself one should never trust a photograph!). The IndiMatte has a swing out hinge as well. Still not sure how this is all going to work - I guess I'll just have to buy one and see...and then probably use screw on filters anyway!
 
Get a good used rail mounted Crosziel from Ebay and you are more golden than with a cheap new one. More bang for the buck.

Frank
 
You can't go wrong with Frank's suggestion. Keep in mind whether you're using a "centered" camera or not when selecting one though. You might need to be able to offset the system plate from the matte box to accommodate a camera where the mounting screw and lens center are off axis to each other.

Most systems, even centered ones, will allow a few centimeters of height adjustment.
 
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