None of these cameras are for "Indie Filmmakers"

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dop16mm

Well-known member
I'm not knocking it, it looks fantastic, I'm lusting after HD as much as the rest of you, but I'd like to start a "keep your dvx until you get paid" movement.

The dvx is the perfect camera for the starting indie filmmaker, I wish there was one ten years ago when I was cutting my teeth on Hi8. You can get started for about $5000 for camera, computer and basic accessories. You don't need the latest G5 you can do it on an ibook or emac (or cheap pc). The image quality rivals 16mm, looks fantastic on even a cheap data projector. And makes good dvd's. Despite the hype HD-dvd will not make an impact for years to come, and maybe one digital indie a year gets a major theatrical release, so odds are it won't be yours.

If you are a working producer and your clients demand and are willing to pay for the move to HD then go for it. But realisticly the cost of entry is at least $20, 000 when you account for computer, HD monitors and so on.

An added cost that most haven't considered is the production values required to make HD look good. 1/3" DOF plus high resolution means your production design better be bang on. You don't have the low res of dv to make your backgrounds go soft. 35mm can even cheat with shallow DOF, we don't have that option. If you want mini-35 add another $10,000.

So everyone unite and make a level playing field. Keep making your straight to dvd epics on dv with your camera of choice. If Hollywood comes a calling they will pay for your next one to be on 35mm, or if you really want to stay digital, CineAlta or Varicam, HVX for the little run and gun B-camera.

No doubt well financed so called Hollywood "indies" like InDigEnt that have used Pal Pd-150's and later DVX's will move up. But if you are shooting for gas money and peanut butter sandwiches stick with the DVX or even a $500 palm-corder. Work with actors, write scripts make movies. Stop worrying about tech and how to finance the latest and greatest. Make do with good enough. If you have talent it will shine through.
 
Very good post. I was going to get an HVX, but then I realized that the DVX will suit my needs perfectly. I did get caught up in the 'You need the best technology to make the best movie' camp, but now I see that there is much, much more to it than that.
 
Agreed. I'm not switching cams until my camera dies... which will be a few years. That's why I like the dvx. It's a versatile cam.
 
dop16mm your right but isn't so bad to have the talent and want the tech? I mean if we don't show an interest companies won't develop the products.
 
I too was blinded by the HVX hype until I realised that I personally was not ready. I'm just holding out a little longer for info on the DVX100B, but I'll probably just go for the 100A and rebate stuff. If I can go out and make films and better myself as a filmmaker, I can jump into HD down the line when my skills will justify the purchase. Coming from a first generation XL-1, the DVX is going to be a giant leap as it is.
 
Well the HVX also shoots SD 16x9 to minidv. So why not just get the HVX and use it like a DVX until you can afford to shoot HD?

If you have the money for a brand new DVX why not save a little extra and have a versatile SD/HD camera?
 
Isaac_Brody said:
Well the HVX also shoots SD 16x9 to minidv. So why not just get the HVX and use it like a DVX until you can afford to shoot HD?

If you have the money for a brand new DVX why not save a little extra and have a versatile SD/HD camera?
Click to expand...


Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in! It is tempting, VERY tempting. Damn I love/hate this new technology.
 
dop16mm said:
None of these cameras are for "Indie Filmmakers"
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Gotta disagree there, as I think some indies of genuine talent will put the HVX to good use.

The point that there are too many people (on this forum and others) who will put the technology cart way before the idea and planning horses is well taken, though, and I couldn't agree more. This camera won't do a damn thing in terms of weaving better story structure into marginal scripts or getting better timing and expression out of weak actors. It'll just add a lot more visual detail to many shoddy performances. That's a waste, but if a trust-fund kid playing Hollywood director wants to do that with his or her money, oh well.

This slow and steady democratization of technology will further emphasize the importance of good execution. Come to think of it, I haven't seen too many Hollywood movies lately that have been that impressive in that area.
 
Isaac_Brody said:
Well the HVX also shoots SD 16x9 to minidv. So why not just get the HVX and use it like a DVX until you can afford to shoot HD?

If you have the money for a brand new DVX why not save a little extra and have a versatile SD/HD camera?
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more Isaac, that's how I think I will aproach the HVX.
 
Personally, I'm gonna wait to see the footage from this thing. If it's all that and a bag of chips, I'll consider financing the thing or finding a project that will pay for it up front.

I've already made my money back by using my DVX for jobs, so maybe I can get some serious clients with the HVX amd make the big bucks.

It's gonna take some research once it's on the market, but I will consider it if it's practical.
 
Yeah I saw that Isaac. Wow. Impressive.

But then' what about the HVX? HOw much is the differecne between the HVX and some tinkered DVX?
 
Some people might not see a difference between tethering an HVX to a laptop or tethering and Andromeda DVX to a computer.

But the workflow is much more cumbersome. Dealing with thousands of tiff files, having to synch sound to images and render video to edit. Versus shooting with the HVX and going straight to editing with no capture time. The results with Andromeda look really good, and for the purists and obsessives the hassle may be worth the time. I'd prefer the shoot and edit approach myself.
 
Isaac_Brody said:
Well the HVX also shoots SD 16x9 to minidv. So why not just get the HVX and use it like a DVX until you can afford to shoot HD?

If you have the money for a brand new DVX why not save a little extra and have a versatile SD/HD camera?
Click to expand...


This was the way that I was thinking, until I realized that I would not be able to afford any add ons with the HVX. Now that I have a DVX, I was able to afford a good tripod, good mic, good case, car mount, batteries, dolly . . . If I were to go with the HVX, I would not be able to afford any of that. So, either way, I am happy with my dvx. :)
 
I love this thread, dead on, shoot now with your dvx, buy later after you learn.

Thing I ask is this, what if you make a really solid feature and they will not buy it because of the lousy format it was shot on? now your FU***! right? or could I start production on a feature RIGHT NOW with the dvx and mini35 unit? will it sell if it's a good product? what when HD DVD is out and it looks like ASS on HD because of DV compression?

The question will be mute as soon as reelstream moves along a bit on the workflow side, problem is I am ITCHING to start a feature, I sure as heck don't want to have a finished project that is "not good enough" because of a format I shot on!!

help
 
I am ready for the HDX... my career has been tightly followed by the digital videocams... I did a shortfilm three years ago with the XL1 which got transfered two 35mm.... in 2003 I shot another one with the DVX100: the transfer was so much better... and at the beginning of this year I released a short film shot with two DVX100 simultaneously to get a HD panoramic image: the transfer was amazing

Now I am awaiting for the HDX to shoot my first feature film
 
Here's a full-rez frame of the last short-film I told you about.
It was featured in LA Film Festival's last edition:
medio082863kx.jpg
 
I agree with the gist of what you’re saying. The DVX100 is still a powerful imaging tool and is far from being obsolete. And all of this does boil down to talent, but....


>>The image quality rivals 16mm,<<

Not true at all. DV has a long way to go before it even comes close to 16mm’s resolution and latitude. I don't even think a 100k Sony Cine Alta has the reolsution and latitude of 16mm.

>>If you want mini-35 add another $10,000<<

You could always get a G35 for $1,000.00.

Good post though.
 
obin said:
what if you make a really solid feature and they will not buy it because of the lousy format it was shot on? now your FU***! right?
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As long as your story and performances are there I would say go ahead and shoot with what you can. Keep in mind you're talking about ONE feature, not your ONLY feature.

I think one problem we have as indie filmmakers is thinking that movies need to be all things to all people all the time. God willing we're talking about one movie in a string of movies that you'll make throughout your career.

I think most distributors and/or producers who will even look at your film seriously aren't looking at it only to see what you've made....but to be able to see what potential you have, to get an idea of what you WILL make.

Having a movie under your belt is always better than not having anything.
Plus, by the time you do move up to shooting HD on a feature you'll already have the experience and lessons learned from your DV feature to take with you.

By the way, I saw some of your work on the Andromeda site, really nice stuff!
Can't wait to see what you do in the coming years.
 
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