Non SAG Actor minimum wages?

M

Mickey Munday

Well-known member
does anybody know what the minimum wages per day for speaking roles and non speaking roles on a feature for NON SAG actors?
 
That's the thing, without a union who would set the baseline? The answer is whatever the production can give that the actor will accept.
 
Mickey

It depends. Non-union does not have a rate but there are some standards in certain areas.

ecking is right..what ever you can pay that an actor will accept is one way to go. Or you can set a rate of say $50 or $100 a day...or you can offer an amount plus a percentage based on something like 1/16th of a point on the back end should you sell the project later.

If you decide to give them a flat rate with no back end deal then make sure they sign off on the project as a 'buy out'. That means they cannot ask for more later and if you do happen to sell it down the line you will need proof of that 'buy out'.

Some indies pay more a day than $100 some pay less..but around there is what I have seen a lot. Most actors will work for that because it would be better than being an extra on a union project where they may get less in a non-union state. If you pay more than the extras get...then a lot of actors will take it because they are all starving these days!

Just some thoughts for ya...and remember...feed them well and they often won't grumble about low pay!
 
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thanks guys....hey Michele I got a question for you, let's say you make a film using non sag and you do not specify a buy out, you just have a contract that states the actors will be paid in the event the film is sold. At that point, after you paid them maybe $100 per day rate, would they even be able to come back later and demand more money like you stated above?

let's say the contract does not promise a backend deal, etc....can someone try to get that? that sounds pretty grimey, i know anything is possible, but in that same logic the filmmaker could do some pretty grimey tactics too without any specific terms being specified no?

an actor was telling me yesterday the going rate for a Non Union actor was like $550 per day for speaking and $100 per day for extras....that seemed incredibly off to me.
 
in montreal, or at least in canada, Scale is the going rate / minimum wage for a UNION actor.

So when i make Scale on set, as an Actra member, i get 500$ a day (8 hours) anytime over that is overtime. There are also low budget agreements, but the least amount you can ever expect to pay a union actor, on a low budget agreement, is 150$ a day. (canadian)

then there is buyout and royalties, which can be discussed via contract.

So 550 american per day for non union? No way.
 
8 hour days? How do you shoot anything in that?! I don't think SAG requires overtime until 12 hours, at least when I read the SAG Ultra Low Budget Agreement I signed it didn't seem to say anything specifically about that, except that meal breaks after 6 hours, and of course at least 12 hours before the next shooting day, etc.

But you can pay SAG actors $100/day on union shoots, as long as it's Ultra Low Budget. You can even defer $100/day, so you pay them nothing but deferred money. I chose to pay upfront because a lot of these people I wouldn't get for free, and I might get someone to flake, which would not be worth the savings whatsoever. What's $1,000 or so to make sure I get what I want?
 
JonathanLB said:
8 hour days? How do you shoot anything in that?! I don't think SAG requires overtime until 12 hours, at least when I read the SAG Ultra Low Budget Agreement I signed it didn't seem to say anything specifically about that, except that meal breaks after 6 hours, and of course at least 12 hours before the next shooting day, etc.

But you can pay SAG actors $100/day on union shoots, as long as it's Ultra Low Budget. You can even defer $100/day, so you pay them nothing but deferred money. I chose to pay upfront because a lot of these people I wouldn't get for free, and I might get someone to flake, which would not be worth the savings whatsoever. What's $1,000 or so to make sure I get what I want?
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SAG actors do go into overtime after 8 hours.
 
Zak Forsman said:
SAG actors do go into overtime after 8 hours.
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Not really, not in any meaningful sense of the word overtime. The minimum pay is $100 for a day on ULB, and you are allowed to shoot for 12 hours. So yeah I guess if you negotiated $100 for an 8-hour day, sure, but nobody ever shoots 8 hour days. Nobody. Not unless it's like the only day you're shooting, or the last day you were shooting. 12 hour days are standard. I've never heard of overtime after 8 hours. I've heard of overtime after 12.
 
well, haha okay, i don't know what to tell you, man. i've produced several features under the ULBA and it's without a doubt 8 hours not including a meal period. the following is item #8 from the ultra low budget agreement...

Length of Work Day, Meal Periods, Overtime
The workday for professional performers shall be eight (8) consecutive hours, exclusive of time for meal periods. The professional performer’s first meal period shall be called within six (6) hours from the time of reporting for work. Succeeding meal periods of the same professional performer shall be called within six (6) hours after the end of the preceding meal period. Such meal periods must be at least thirty (30) minutes long, but not more than one (1) hour long and the professional performer shall not be requested to or required to work during such meal periods. If these meal period rules are violated, the professional performer shall receive $25 in liquidated damages for each half-hour of delay or fraction thereof.

If the professional performer is requested to or required to work beyond eight (8) consecutive hours, Producer shall pay the professional performer for each 1/10 of an hour unit, or fraction thereof, an amount equal to time and one-half of the professional performer's pro rata payment for the day.

No work shall be scheduled in excess of twelve (12) hours within any 24-hour period. The professional performer may consent to work more than twelve (12) hours in a work day, without the Guild’s consent, however, Producer shall compensate the professional performer at a rate equal to two (2) times the professional performer’s negotiated straight time rate or the day performer scale rate under the Letter Agreement for Modified Low-Budget Theatrical Pictures, which ever rate is higher, for any time worked in excess of twelve (12) hours in a day.

The professional performer must receive at least twelve (12) hours rest period between work days. If the rest period requirement is violated, the professional performer shall be paid an additional day's pay. Further, the professional performer may refuse to report if given less than ten (10) hours rest period between work days.
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here's a sample of the contract... http://www.sagindie.com/docs/sag-ultralowbudget-2005wm.pdf
 
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also, i see you claim to have been deferring pay to SAG actors on productions where you signed an ULBA. if that's true you are violating the terms of the agreement. :) you haven't been able to defer pay on a film over 35 minutes since 2005 when "the ultra low budget" contract replaced the "experimental film" contract, or whatever is was called. the only SAG contract that let's you defer payment now is the short film agreement. otherwise, it's $100/day minimum.
 
on the nonunion there is no such thing as a set rate. maybe that one actors agent has a set rate they won't allow their actor to work under but even low budget SAG is less than what they are quoting you.

as for back end deals...yes..any actor can come after you later if you don't have them sign off on use of their likeness, etc etc.

any good company willing to buy the project later will want paperwork to support it. make sure your contracts stipulate the buy out or what the back end deal is if any apply!

and other wise...looks like Zac and PaPa got you covered on the rest rather well!
 
an actor was telling me yesterday the going rate for a Non Union actor was like $550 per day for speaking and $100 per day for extras....that seemed incredibly off to me.
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If you're non-SAG, I believe you can pay them whatever you want. Some of it also depends on if you're in a right to work state (kind of at least, it gets confusing)

I've seen low-budget SAG films around here where the SAG actors were offered $300 a day (which some didn't think was worth their time but others did). SAG actors usually work on a 12 hour rate while most extras I've seen work on a 8 or 10 hour rate. It also depends on the cost of living in the city. I know that if you're shooting around New Orleans it'll be $78 for 8 hours but only $58 if you're in some small town. It also depends on the casting agency.

Once again though, in my experience with non-SAG actors and non-Union productions; you can have everyone work for free if you want and there are quite a few people (often very talented people) who will be willing to do this if they believe in the project. Just make sure you feed them well if you're going to be paying them peanuts.

Perhaps the best thing for you would be to find out where the SAG office in your state is and simply call them up and ask what kind of contracts they would suggest. In projects where I've used non-SAG actors and didn't pay anyone (save for a good meal); I simply created a release form/contract saying that they agreed to work the following dates; all footage was owned by me and my production company, and they were aware that they were they were performing for exposure and a place in the credits. There are some templates for this kind of stuff online so make sure it looks official and make sure you cover your butt.

Mickey Munday said:
thanks guys....hey Michele I got a question for you, let's say you make a film using non sag and you do not specify a buy out, you just have a contract that states the actors will be paid in the event the film is sold. At that point, after you paid them maybe $100 per day rate, would they even be able to come back later and demand more money like you stated above?

let's say the contract does not promise a backend deal, etc....can someone try to get that? that sounds pretty grimey, i know anything is possible, but in that same logic the filmmaker could do some pretty grimey tactics too without any specific terms being specified no?
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You're sounding rather vague which is something you NEVER want to do when you're preparing a contract/release form. I've learned from my time doing corporate work that you want to be as specific as possible, even redundant if need be, to make sure everything is clear and in black and white.

For instance, don't say, "actors will be paid once film is sold." You don't know if it'll be sold and, if it is, you don't know for how much. You don't want them demanding a ton of money if you sell the thing for a few bucks and couldn't even cover your production costs.

If you want to promise something if the film is sold them promise a percentage of the profits (not gross). The percentage you give to different actors should be based on how much screen time they have and their calibur as an actor.
 
thanks guys, i went back and reread my contract that all my actors signed and i'm pretty much covered. it was specific in saying how they would only be credited meals and a copy of the film once it's completed based on when i feel like it. it also went into saying how if the film is sold it is completely up to me to determine how much and the rate of pay for the actors based on their contribution. there was a few other things but it was straight and to the point. every actor on the film has signed this contract, but the actor threw me off with the whole "$550 per day for non union actors rate"....sometimes when somebody says something that's so wrong with so much confidence you think for a second "damn, is this a new law that just passed an hour ago or something, lol?" even though i encouraged the actors to read over the contract carefully and get it back to me as soon as possible, i noticed a lot of them just signed and gave it right back without reading. now that i've been showing some of the footage people are getting excited and crossing their fingers and feeling like something positive is gonna come out of it, etc.

glad i had my contracts in place beforehand, i've been so involved with other aspects of the feature i forgot exactly how specific it was.
 
Zak Forsman said:
also, i see you claim to have been deferring pay to SAG actors on productions where you signed an ULBA. if that's true you are violating the terms of the agreement. :) you haven't been able to defer pay on a film over 35 minutes since 2005 when "the ultra low budget" contract replaced the "experimental film" contract, or whatever is was called. the only SAG contract that let's you defer payment now is the short film agreement. otherwise, it's $100/day minimum.
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I meant to say SAG Short Film Letter Agreement, which is what they title it, sorry about the mistake there. That is what I was trying to say, though, that you can defer pay and it must be at least $100/day deferred, but the point is Zak, let me explain myself so you get what I was trying to say, and if I'm wrong feel free to point out the error in my logic so I understand what you are saying. Now I had no problems with this on my shoot this last weekend because we had 13 actors, 12 of whom had roles requiring less than 3 total hours on the shoot, most actually more like 1.5 hours to 2 hours, they were paid $100 right there, rather than deferred, so not even marginally close to 8 hours. Our main actor was there one day, about 11 hours (he is friends with the co-producer, who was one of our actresses, so he hung out after he was done for a bit too), he was paid well in excess of $100, let's just put it that way. So overtime would be no concern as he was paid many times the minimum pay for a day.

But let's say in theory, I'm shooting a short, it's irrelevant whether I want to shoot for 8 hours or 12, because if it's all allowed to be deferred pay, short films make no money anyway. So ok you pay them, what, like $200 deferred pay per day instead of $100? Whatever it would be, doesn't matter the math. The point is since you're allowed to defer the pay, and shorts are essentially non-commercial projects, then I don't see how in practice it makes ANY difference whether you film for 8 hours or 12 hours, unless way down the road your short film gets some offer to be bought. I guess then that's your problem, and you may have to turn it down if you deferred all pay.

In my opinion it makes no difference just because I wouldn't pay any actor $100 for a 12 hour day anyway, that's insulting, I wouldn't even pay crew that unless for some reason the person was doing it for fun or they weren't experienced, etc., minimum for a 12 hour day is going to be like $150 to $200 for crew and a performer I'm going to figure on $200 anyway, so I guess you can say I'm paying overtime but not in any meaningful sense of the term overtime. It's a flat rate. It happens to be above the rate that would be the minimum plus 4 hours of overtime, therefore it's irrelevant how you want to look at it. I see it as paying a flat rate of $200. Maybe you could see it as paying $100 base rate plus overtime. But either way doesn't change the outcome that for that price I got an actor for 12 hours.

That's all I was really trying to say. In any case there is no real reason an actor should have to be on set for 12 hours, let's be honest. If I'm shooting I want the entire day to be 12 hours, including a 30 minute break for lunch, and I love to be able to make that a 45 minute break if we're a bit ahead of schedule. The actor should NOT need to show up at the start of the day usually, because it takes us a full 1.5 hours to setup, and it will only take them maybe 20 to 45 minutes to get into wardrobe and makeup (assuming it's not a zombie film, but more of a glamour shot, etc.). Also why would the actor leave at the very end of the day? The last hour is going to be people taking down equipment and loading the truck(s) anyway. So realistically speaking it'd be pretty tough to make an actor stay for 12 hours.
 
Just for clarification so no one gets confused when working with SAG contracts:

There is an overtime rate for the Short Film Contract, too. For 9 - 12 hours it can also be deferred but for over 12 hours it must be paid (non-deferred):

Overtime

Performers shall be due time and one half for the ninth, tenth, eleventh and twelfth hours or parts thereof, in tenth of hour (six (6) minute) units of work time, which overtime may be deferred and will only become payable as more particularly described elsewhere in this Agreement.

If a performer is required to work beyond twelve (12) hours in any day, such performer shall be due overtime at double the straight time rate for any time worked in tenth of hour (six (6) minute) units, which salary may not be deferred. For the purpose of calculating such overtime, the rate shall be based on the current rates under the Screen Actors Guild Modified Low Budget Letter Agreement.
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and

Non-Deferred Monies

i. Car mileage allowance reimbursement
ii. Public transportation costs (due the day of work)
iii. Liquidated damages for meal period violations
iv. Per diem
v. Reimbursement for expenditures made at request of Producer, for example,
special hairdress, special make-up, or wardrobe
vi. Liquidated damages for failure to timely deliver employment contracts
vii. Salary for work by a performer in excess of twelve (12) hours on any day, in
excess of five (5) days in any workweek, or in excess of the thirty (30) shooting
days.
viii. Liquidated damages for rest period violations
ix. Liquidated damages due the Guild for contract violations
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That would be a LOT of work, I'm not surprised they have that rule. I had 13 actors, 11 were on set for between 1.5 and 3 hours at most, then the lead had a single day at 10 to 11 hours, and one other character (minor, but in several scenes) had I think 8 hours.
 
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