Non paid actors usually suck

F

filmlover

Carbonite Member
so i aspire to make a major movie, but really who pays attention to no name actors unless you got some names like tom hanks etc. my concern is a great script, sound,editing, lighting but no one would recognize so and so
 
cant remember what director said this, but its goes something like this. "There are no bad actors, just bad directors."
 
Hi filmlover,

Explain your situation a little more and maybe we can help. Is this a short film? Feature? What is your budget? What genre is it?

If you have a really good film on your hands, then people will still watch it, and it could do very well. Think Clerks, El mariachi, etc.

I presume by non paid actors you mean non famous actors? Well, usually the situation is they don't have as much screen experience as the Hollywood ones, obviously, or even ones that have done a lot of indie film. This means to get a good performance you may have to be a very skilled actors director.

Let us know more about your film and situation.
 
yah, you're right guys, what im meaning is that most non paid actors (pizza manager, cousin etc.) just arent up to the task (most of them). Say you wanna do an emotional scene and you need crying, it just doesnt look good. i guess thats where experience kicks in. I suppose you get what you pay for (nothing). My backround is in drama/film/theatre so i try to get the best performance i can, most of the time, the actor's just cant get into character. I wanna sell a film in the future, i suppose i should gather a very realistic budget and get good actors. Since, mentally they know they have to be good to get paid.
 
That has nothing to do with pay. It has to do with casting. If you cast bad people and don't pay them - they will "suck". If you cast great people and don't pay them - they will be great.

And a bad director doesn't help actors, but a bad actor can never be coaxed into a performance. Some people have it, some don't.

I think you are looking a little too high though. Judging by the way you are speaking of the craft, film is new to you. I would try a short film first and see how you do - then go for the "major movie". Major (Hollywood) films cost upwards of 5 million dollars at the minimum. Though there are notable exceptions. Just one is the first Saw film. The franchise is kicking butt and the first film cost 1 million dollars. There are some other films that do well that come in with low numbers.

But to do a "major film" you are going to need "major" experience and "major" cash.

Not dashing your dreams though. If you want it - go get it. But just think realistically for your first film.
 
Ah, right.

Well - I won't say it's not a good idea to use your cousin in your film, but if you're expecting emotional performances, it's better to use experienced actors.

This is not to say you can't get a solid performance out of a complete newbie (It's been done before) - but it is much harder in most cases because the person who you're working with doesn't know what to do in front of a camera. They might even be a good actor, but a good film actor is another thing entirely. This puts pressure on you as a director, and as you know - it is TOUGH directing a complete newbie. Remember - the "general public" impression of movies is so much different than what a filmmaker sees and this can spill into your movie with inexperienced actors. Hey - sometimes it's a good thing, but it's case by case and you have to assess the situation.

If you're wanting to do some short films with emotional weight, then I suggest putting out a casting call, and paying your actors -- or if you are are really tight for cash, you can find people WITH experience who will offer their services for credit, food, expenses + copy. (Short films are better for this because they don't take a long time to shoot, and they're good for actors reels).

I agree to a certain extent "you get what you pay for", but often great films are due to the talents behind them who often work for free for a good cause. This can be said not just for actors but for editors, directors, writers, composers, etc. I agree with Mattykins.

There are people out there with amazing talents who are willing to help out for a good cause. Not everyone is stuck in the system and you just have to find the right people.

I know way too many people working in various areas of film who produce second rate work and charge high end industry rates. Sure these people have got to pay the rent, but seriously! Of course - people will pay for this, because they feel if they are paying a "professional" with "industry rates" then they're going to get a good result. Doesn't make it so.

Don't drive yourself into debt if you are still learning yourself, use the people around you, people from local acting groups, people willing to work for experience and credit, when you feel you are ready to take on a big project -- say, a feature then you will find a way to fund your film, cast properly, etc. Have fun while you're learning (if you are, I'm guessing here) and don't take it too seriously, keep it fun. And then when you feel ready you can tackle it guns blazing.

Good luck.
 
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Let me add: if you're a perfectionist, plan, cast well and raise the necessary capital before you shoot. Then take the plunge. If you fail, you deserve it (just kidding.)

If you the muddle-through guy like me, just pick up a camera and go out there and make a movie. Like Chris says, "have fun."

The first feature is a learning experience.

If you believe you should have sex with a girl to try her out before you get married, do a short film first.

If you're the type who when young and in love, marries the first girl he falls in love with, go ahead and make a movie with all you got. LOL

Whatever you do, take all advice with a grain of salt.
 
filmlover

i got a giggle because you said non-paid actors and then mentioned pizza guy and cousin. you do get the point...they are not non-paid actors. those are friends. you can find actors who are very good but have not had much work yet. they are the ones who are willing to do some free work to build their resume and their reels.

seriously...look for actors..not friends!
 
Many very good actors will work non paid, if they like the script, believe in the project, and or need material for their reels. Like non paid crew though, the flake out factor is high, which is why it's wise to pay the leads something to tie them to a professional obligation. You dont want your leads leaving half-way through the shoot to do an industrial! I heard the great Sean Penn did quite a few non paid features before he landed the dude role in Fast Times... Whatever happened to those films?? The problem was not with Sean Penn obviously but the productions themselves.
 
it's not just actors, it's all profession.

when ppl are paid or pay enough, he/she will put in little or no effort.
 
nantnee said:
cant remember what director said this, but its goes something like this. "There are no bad actors, just bad directors."
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I agree. Of course I'm sure there must be a few ridiculously bad actors around, as for the majority, as long you're a good director then I'm sure you can bring out performances from even the most mediocre actors.
 
I love all actors. I think it's the most unselfish profession in the world. To me they're all great. If they're actors then they deserve my respect as an indie filmmaker.
 
What are your casting methods?

Is this discussion based off you pointing to various people in your life and just assigning them roles in your movie? It doesn't say very much for your tastes when you say that everyone who works for you isn't talented.... when you're the director.

That's exactly what Francis Ford Coppola says he did on the "Godfather." He chose the various department heads and actors that made up one of the best movies of all time.

If you continue to slouch on the casting, then you will also continue to slouch as a director. Take this process very seriously. You are the gatekeeper to your story. Are you going to let a bunch of teenagers with spraycans gain acess to your movie? No. SO why would you someone 60 minutes of screentime if they are not invested, or if they do not have what it takes?

The fault lies on your process, and I mean no disrespect. But show some creativity with how you get the word out. Make your actors earn their parts and they will be more inclined to impress you the director.
 
"what im meaning is that most non paid actors (pizza manager, cousin etc.) just arent up to the task"

There is nothing wrong with random every day people. There is talent everywhere.

But it is not a guessing game. Again, I must point to Francis Coppola and refer to his open casting sessions. The caporegime Salvatore Tessio was open for ANYONE to try out for. A random guy off the street named Abe Vigoda decided to audition and got the part. And he was 51 years old at the time. And from that day on he had an acting career as a very famous character actor.

Actors are everywhere. But the ability to "get to that place" is often dependent upon a set of circumstances such as the casting process. Or a series of rehearsals. Or the actor's personal traning. You can't just point to your friend on the spot and say "go".
 
I think the best thing you can do if you have no choice but to cast friends and family is to write roles that they can play, or roles they can relate to. But don't ask them to play themselves. Give them characters that they can understand and emphasize with so they can better get into the heads of the character and be the character. There are a lot of great films that use mostly non-actors especially films from Iran and China. And they utilise the "non-actiness" of the people to great effect. I remember watching the making of documentary for Samira Makmalbaf's Blackboards. In the middle of filmming she replaces the professional actor (who was over acting) with one of the non-professional extras and the film was so much better for it.
 
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Rashdan said:
I think the best thing you can do if you have no choice but to cast friends and family is to write roles that they can play, or roles they can relate to. But don't ask them to play themselves. Give them characters that they can understand and emphasize with so they can better get into the heads of the character and be the character. There are a lot of great films that use mostly non-actors especially films from Iran and China. And they utilise the "non-actiness" of the people to great effect. I remember watching the making of documentary for Samira Makmalbaf's Blackboards. In the middle of filmming she replaces the professional actor (who was over acting) with one of the non-professional extras and the film was so much better for it.
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IMHO this is just another one of those "rare exception" stories. Most untrained, inexperienced actors are in fact really bad at it. And that's no criticism actually - how good are most untrained, inexperienced golfers? Or novelists? Or chefs? Same thing. Sure there's the occasional "natural" (see "rare exception" above), but they are very very few and far between.

As far as unpaid actors are concerned though, that's a whole 'nother thing. In a talent center like LA or NYC, there are thousands of pretty darn well trained and experienced actors looking for their big break while they wait tables, bartend, or do some other place-keeper gig, and amongst that group is gold waiting to be mined. You just have to cast your hook in the water and they will come a'bitin' (pardon the mixed metaphors). Websites like Breakdown Express/Actor's Access make it easy as pie to find these folks. Put up a free casting notice for a feature film on BE in NYC (where I've done it) and in literally hours your inbox will be flooded with applicants. In a few days you'll have hundreds and hundreds. Amongst them *will* be good actors willing to work for next to nothing (many will be very happy to make $50 a day).

At that point it's up to you to make the right choice. If you have an eye for talent and good instincts about people in general you'll be able to populate your cast very nicely for free or nearly so. Just make sure you don't make the number one mistake: casting based mainly on an actor's looks. It's really, *really* tempting, but don't do it. Acting ability is far, far more important to the success of your film.

My $.02
 
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filmlover said:
so i aspire to make a major movie, but really who pays attention to no name actors unless you got some names like tom hanks etc. my concern is a great script, sound,editing, lighting but no one would recognize so and so
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If your movie stands on a crutch of a big name, you have bigger problems to worry about than than your actors.
 
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