F5: No video signal monitor when Viewfinder MLUT is on (cineEI mode)?

E

Erik Wittbusch

Well-known member
Hi,

as we all know, we have several threads going on.
But this is one of the biggest drawbacks for me.

Why can't I use the waveform/histo while using a MLUT
on the viewfinder?

This is ridiculous as this will be the mode I'm going to use most of the time.
Without waveform/histogram it's pretty much flying blind for me.
Sometimes "video signal monitor" is greyed out, sometimes I can dial it in but
it never appears in the viewfinder.

I already checked twice that I turned HDMi output off and SDi output to 1080 PsF.

Any solution?

Does the F5/55 behave the same?
 
Thanks.
It might be an explanation but no solution...

The waveform limitation is similar. Waveform only displays when the outputs are all set to the same settings.
So if LUT’s are off on every output the waveform will display. Similarly if LUT’s are on for all outputs then it will display.

What does it mean?

It means that CineEI + waveform/histo only works with either LUTs baked in or all LUTs off...
Basically you can't use CineEI properly.
I want to record SLog3/SGamut3.cine to the crads and have a look profile on the display.
At the same time I need to judge exposure with the waveform. What the...
 
Last edited:
Today,

somebody from Sony told me, that it's the same on the F5/55.
This seems to be due to processing power and won't be changed
easily with firmware. It seems we really have to live with that.
I sold my lightmeter years ago... :(

Can anyone confirm this on the F5/55(no waveform with CineEI and MLUT on)?

The following is suggested from Sony:
Use the High Key/ Low Key on one of the assignable buttons.
Now you can see the lower stops (shadows) within the 709 range and/or
the higher stops (highlights) on the viewfinder by pushing this button.
This helps but seems a little stupid...
 
Erik,
I'm not entirely sure I follow your experience with the F7 on my F5. First of all, I never use the HDMI output, so, I can't speak to that operating mode. I use VF and SDI ports exclusively, while recording in CineEI mode. In this mode, with HD being output on the SDI ports(1080p), I can view the WFM on my VF (without burning in the MLUT)and external monitor(connected to SDI1) as long as both the (SDI + HDMI) and (VF) MLUTS are simultaneously on or off. If either one is opposite the setting of the other, there is no histogram or WFM. The ability to burn in the MLUT to the recording is a separate switchable function (SDI + Internal). If the record mode is set to RGB, the MLUT burn in is locked to OFF.
 
Another bummer (but not Sony's fault and nothing they could do to fix it) is that I realized my Alphatron has a waveform but if I sent out a LUT signal, I would be seeing the LUT represented on the waveform which doesn't really help me at all. It would be nice to see the LUT visually but see a waveform for Slog3. As much as I don't want to drop money on the Zacuto Gratical EVF, it has built-in LUT support and I assume the waveform would read off the Slog3 input. Really bummed that Sony couldn't do LUT + Waveform. Kind of kills the effectiveness of it.

At least on bigger shoots I will be able to send the LUT to the client monitor, check to see if I like the look but then look in my EVF for waveform and safety regarding exposure.
 
I'll have another meet up with guys from Sony and will
present a list and show them the issues "live" on my camera.
This gonna happen on november, 25th.

Let's see, what they will answer (possibly nothing)!
 
Erik Wittbusch said:
I'll have another meet up with guys from Sony and will
present a list and show them the issues "live" on my camera.
This gonna happen on november, 25th.

Let's see, what they will answer (possibly nothing)!
Click to expand...

While what I'm about to mention isn't a "bug", it's something I would be SO happy if they addressed:

On the FS700, the S&Q button toggles between all three modes: Standard - Slomo (60fps) - SuperSlomo (120-960). In SuperSlomo mode, HOLDING the S&Q button allows you to scroll through frame rates. My biggest gripe with quickly switching frame rates on the FS700 was that I had to manually set the shutter speed every time I switched, because the camera's shutter angle mode didn't work properly.

On the FS7, we finally have proper shutter angle that stays locked at 180º between modes... however, Sony has decided to tuck SuperSlomo (72-180fps) into the menus, as well as the ability to change frame rates for this mode. The camera took one step forward with fixing the shutter angle, but took two steps back with the interface for slow motion. It will now take me LONGER to switch between frame rates and modes on the FS7 than it did on the FS700 (even accounting for setting the shutter speed manually each time).

I don't know about you guys, but considering they are pushing this as a run-n-gun documentary camera, this seems like a massive misstep in user ease. How did they put this into the hands of shooters and no one complained about menu-digging to change frame rates? These are the things Arri nailed with the Amira. Frame rate toggle switch so you can set three frame rates and jump to them on the fly with a physical switch.

I'm sure I'm beating this into the ground but I shoot a good amount of run n gun documentary stuff and having to dig through menus means you miss the shot. Having the S&Q button toggle between 24/60/72-180 (and the ability to HOLD S&Q to determine SuperSlomo fps) would be a massive upgrade, in my opinion.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
 
My thoughts on the handle are (to be fed to sony if poss)

Press to select function. Scroll to change FN setting. press to confirm.

The functions..
ISO
TEMP
FPS
(Aperture)
Lut On/Off
Res up/down

Im not sure the camera does much more - they should all simply on the scroll wheel.

S
 
Please let's reserve this thread exlusively to the LUT vs. WFM/histogram issue.
If you want me to bring a list to the Sony guys on the 25th, lets discuss this
here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?330455-actually-FS7-Gotchas-quirks-problems-amp-solutions


To sum this all up:


In Cine EI mode

- when all MLUTs are off WFM/histogram is possible

- if you turn on any MLUT - the WFM/histo disappears

- you need to turn on all MLUTs (SDI1+Internal/SDI2/HDMI/Viewfinder)
and the WFM/histogram is displayed again

- HDMI/SDI2 are connected together (either both MLUT off or both on)

>> you can't really control exposure in camera, if you want to have different
settings for your internal/external displays and the recording.
Basically, you can only monitor (WFM/histo) the video signal, that is recorded
and displayed at the same time. These should be separate if you need to give
your director the look he likes without loosing the whole SLog3 range or just
want to have better control in your viewfinder...

Weird - isn't it?
 
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