EVA1: No VFR in RAW output mode? (Atomos)

F

filmguy123

Veteran
It was said that via SDI RAW output, the EVA1 could output VFR modes in non standard timebases (but not in HDMI). VFR modes such as 36, 48, 72, 168, so on and so forth.

However, when connected via SDI 6G output to Atomos Shogun Inferno, the record option is unavailable in any non standard timebase modes. As I scroll through, the record option is only available for standard 24, 30, 60, 120, 240.

This is both in SDI RAW out 4K CROP and in 2.2K Crop/Mix mode, in either DNxHR or in ProRes RAW codec. Same thing. The screen will show it is in 2K or 4K VFR mode, but only allow recording on a standard timebase - just like in HDMI.

What gives?
 
I don't have an inferno, but I'm assuming that means that non-standard VFR rate options are not yet programmed into the inferno... What does Atomos have to say about it?
 
The EVA outputs it. Whether the recorder is able to see and process the output signal, is up to the recorder.

As OnSet said, check with Atomos.
 
Thank you Barry!

I have tried this in CinemaDNG, DNxHR, and ProRes on the Atomos. No dice.

I have emailed Atomos on the issue but will probably be a few days before hearing back.

Does this work on the Odyssey 7Q? If this is truly an Atomos issue, I'm flabbergasted that after all these years it is not supported. Ugh.

VFR - the most PIA issue.

  1. GH5 has VFR and 1080p 60p @ 10-bit 422, but not VFR support for 36/48 @ 10-bit. Ugh.
  3. EVA1 has VFR in 10-bit 422 in HD. Woohoo! Except the internal codec is, for some asinine reason, LongGOP 50 or ALL-I 100, worse than GH5. Unless I swap to 60p, in which it gives a much needed bump to LongGOP 100/ALL-I 200 - except now I can't use VFR 36 or 48, because those will be fast motion now. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.
  5. GH5, GH5s, EVA1 all support 4K 60p, but 8-bit only, with 10-bit 422 4k 60p output via HDMI/SDI, but not VFR ugh.
  7. Finally, $10,000 later and 6 months post launch, RAW output so I can just FINALLY get a decent bandwidth, 10-bit 422 VFR signal, which for some god forsaken reason is unavailable on 3 seperate camera systems for bizarre reasons in any mode. The 4K RAW Output is a 4K crop which means wide angle is rough, and you lose the 5.7k oversampling selling feature of the EVA1 (and the size weight advantage), but hey, at least. it. works.
  9. Except it doesn't work, and RAW output just won't work in 36 or 48, in HD or 4K, in any codec, to the Atomos.


Oh, woe is me. Just venting ;)

If the video gods (ahem, Mitch) are listening, please, enable internal 1080p VFR 10-bit 422 at a GOOD mbps codec on the EVA1. Like, seriously, can you just make the ALL-I 200 and LongGop 100 available in all HD modes instead of only at base 50p/60p?

Hoping Atomos can solve this issue and/or add support for 4K RAW VFR output...
 
Hi Barry, I received this response from Atomos:

"According to my spec sheet for the EVA-1, it does not have the ability to output VFR frame rates. Only standardized frame rates can be sent over the HDMI/SDI connections. So unfortunately, non-standard frame rates like 36 and 48, won't be possible."

Mitch, can you confirm?
 
Better to hear it from Mitch, but it's true...it's a non-standard/not supported over HDMI/SDI.

Internally, cameras can do whatever they want/can.
 
I could have sworn in the EVA1 thread Mitch had mentioned that 4k VFR modes would be possible on EVA1 but only via RAW SDI output, because I got excited about RAW solely for that reason.
 
If it's possible, it would need to be over 24p/30p/60p.

An over-cranked 36/24, 48/24, etc.

Unless that's what you're trying to do?

In other words, you can't record 36 frames per second or 48 frames per second onto the Atomos.
 
Variable frame rates are not supported over HDMI or SDI video signals, and never have been. All prior vfr cameras have embedded their variable frame rate footage within a standard video signal, usually with flags to identify the "real" frames versus the "padded" frames.

Mitch will have to clarify in case I get this wrong, but that limitation does not apply to the raw output. Raw is a data signal, not a video signal, and does not inherently have to conform to video standard frame rates. In fact, the very existence of 240fps raw substantiates this argument, since 240 fps is not a standard video base rate.
 
Hi Mitch,

It's been a couple weeks, and I'd love to get back to Atomos on this and get to the bottom of it - do you have confirmation on this issue yet?

Thanks so much!!
 
Sorry for the delay. This is currently a limitation in the Atomos recorder, not in the EVA1.

In EVA1, there is true VFR for RAW output.
But Atomos limits it as standard multiplier speeds, i.e. 24, 30, 60, 120, 240fps.
If EVA1 outputs other fps to Atomos, the image on its LCD will be broken.
 
Atomos has replied:

Great info. It appears my spec sheet for the EVA-1 was incomplete.

Regardless, Mr. Gross is correct about our recorders. We currently only accept NTSC, PAL, and computer frame rate multiples. So 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 50, 59.94, 60, 119.88, 120, 239.76, 240. I think we also do 100, and 200 fps from some cameras.

I'm not an engineer, but I would think it would be POSSIBLE to work with variable frame rates, but I don't know if there are any plans to do this. Or if there are plans, how soon it would be implemented. I'll see if anyone has any information on this.
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