No Timecode on Playback

T

TomClyde

New member
Hi all,

I need advice on what to do. This forum has been great for many problems but I couldn't find an answer to this one.

We shot a feature-length video on the dvx100a, 24pa anamorphic. We have 54 MQ tapes to be logged and captured. I started by using the dvx100a as the playback vtr. After 7 tapes, I got mosaic patterns, banding, bluescreen. I read up on this forum and realized it was probably dirty tape heads. I took it in for professional cleaning. It came back -- same problem. Cleaning didn't work. Also now it didin't even show timecode on the tape (even though I had logged that tape already). There was a * after the TC and all 0000s.

So I read up some more, and realized I could use any minDV camcorder for playback (while I send the dvx100a in under warrenty). This is when the real mystery began.

I put tapes in the camcorder (Cannon Z60) and got NO timecode (just lines where the numbers would be), for most of the tapes. The first 7, which I had already logged, showed timecode, and there were 15 others (from two different weekends of shooting out of eight weeks) that showed timecode. The others, when you play them on the camcorder, show the images but do not register any timecode.

Does anyone have a suggestion? Why would some of our tapes have timecode on them and other not. We always had timecode during recording of course (careful notes by the script supervisor!), and always used the same settings.

Thank you!
Tom
 
Sounds like you have tape dropouts my friend. What kind of tapes are you using? It sounds like your heads got progressively more dirty as the shoot went on, rendering some tapes with usable timecode and others without. If this is the case, the material you recorded onto your tapes is flawed, leaving you without many options.
 
PDX_DVX said:
Sounds like you have tape dropouts my friend. What kind of tapes are you using? It sounds like your heads got progressively more dirty as the shoot went on, rendering some tapes with usable timecode and others without. If this is the case, the material you recorded onto your tapes is flawed, leaving you without many options.
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We used MQs throughout. Also, we watched the rushes pretty much nightly, and never saw any flaws in terms of the images. I didn't pay attention to timecode when watching those. Additionally, the DP (very experienced) would have noticed a lack of timecode when he occasionally did a playback during a shoot. So I'm not sure that it's not there somewhere. I hope so anyway.
 
Sometimes when a camera becomes mis-aligned it will still record fine and playback fine, but only
with the "bad" tapes. This isn't uncommon, but it still stinks. I have here a Digital8 camera a
friend of mine dropped off for me to look at. It won't play any of her tapes. But, it records new
tapes perfectly and plays back the new tapes fine. It's misaligned. If she gets it fixed, she can
play her old tapes again. But, then nothing will play her newer, recent tapes. It's a catch22.
 
Weird......Maybe making dubs with a professional VTR would fix the problem? Make sure and make the dubs to brand new Panny MQ's
 
id certainly agree and say it sounds like your heads are dirty.. you can have then cleaned again or run the cleaning tape for 3-5 secs. id guess the tapes are probably fine though.

you should NOT use the DVX as a deck for capture. as for the tape in the other mini DV cam not working.. not all mini DV cams will read the DVX timecode. some do.. some dont.. you need to be sure that you have one that does. apparently it does not. one that i know does is the panasonic PV-DV103 which is what i use. there are some others that work as well, but i cant think of any models off hand.. perhaps others can chime in with ones knonw to work.. but i can tell you that the entire panasonic GS series like the GS -9 and GS 120 DO NOT WORK.

as far as misalignment. that would suck. but if it hasnt been dropped or thumped around id say your probably just looking at dirty heads. if it is misaligned. id have it repaired at an authorized service center.
 
iamloser said:
your heads are dirty.. you can have then cleaned again or run the cleaning tape for 3-5 secs.

as for the tape in the other mini DV cam not working.. not all mini DV cams will read the DVX timecode. some do.. some dont.. you need to be sure that you have one that does. apparently it does not. one that i know does is the panasonic PD-DV103 which is what i use. there are some others that work as well, but i cant think of an y models off hand.. perhaps others can chime in with ones knonw to work.. but i can tell you that the entire panasonic GS series like the GS -9 and GS 120 DO NOT WORK.
Click to expand...


That gives me some hope. My heart was sinking fast. We had about 25 people working for 8 weeks straight (and more) on this first feature. Amazing results. It would be tragic beyond belief to have what we shot be flawed. I'm hoping I can find the PD-DV103 somewhere locallly (I'm in the Bay Area) today! Still doesn't explain why some tapes would show timecode on playback on the Cannon...
 
PDX_DVX said:
Weird......Maybe making dubs with a professional VTR would fix the problem?
Click to expand...

Not saying it would.
But if I had a feature, I would not be viewing dailes or editing from my masters.

Generally a good idea to spend the $$ to have a post house make two copies of each
tape you shoot: one for viewing, one for editing, keep your masters in a vault.
 
..youl likely have a hard tim e finding that model now.. it was discontinued some time ago but circuit dity had them for special order for a while.. now its just refurbs and stores i wouldnt really trust selling them at first search on the web. what you could do is just take a DVX tape into a store and run it in some of the cams and make sure they are set to display timecode.. if it shows up .. you should be good.. if not .. return it. but i know there are plenty of other consumer models that will run the DVX timecode

.. but yeah it doesnt make sense as to why some do and some dont.. it sounds like that cannon runs the TC just fine.. i missed the whole concept of what you said earlier. it sounds like some of your tapes may be gunked up. .. as wells suggested if they were all shot after a certain time.. the heads could have been misaligned and then you get bad tapes. .. but if the heads were just dirty you could potentially have certain tapes with problems and some without intermixed as far as when they were shot.

id suggest doing the dubs as well if thats the case.. should help get things back in order for you. then use a camera other than the DVX to log and capture them :thumbsup:
 
Try a Sony miniDV camera (better computer control and usually better timecode reading than most other brands) as a temp deck or see about renting/buying a real MiniDV deck.
 
Good news on the Case of the Missing Timecode.

I went out with tapes in hand and found a consumer-level camcorder that can read the timecode on them. Tried them in the store.

My guess is that the Cannon Z60 I was using was not able to read the timecode, and then occasionally did for some unknown reason anyway. So now all's well -- no dropouts or problems with the tapes -- on to digitizing! I only hope that the dirty tape heads on the dvx100a can be cleaned properly. If it doesn't work a second time taking it in, I'll have to try with Barry's guidelines myself!

Thank you.
Tom
 
i'm getting more and more paranoid, i'd rather capture the tapes nightly (especially the first night after shooting the first day) but i'd prefer not to run it through a camera to copy it until i have it on the hard drive.

also raid 5 people...

matthew
 
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